30 rebels attacked slain U.S. troops in Iraq-witness

Reuters ^ | 6/21/06

[TexKat]

At least maybe they were already dead before they were mutilated.

We would hope for that Peach, but I doubt it. The blood thirsty monsters would need live individuals in order to receive pleasure.

But then who knows!

[Peach]

If 30 gunmen did open fire on them, they were probably dead before tortured. That's my hope at least, and I'm sure the hope of the families involved as well.

[ASOC]

Shame the troops did not have time to emplace any claymore mines. WOuld have evened up the odds pretty quick.

I wonder what the squad leader of these two troopers is doing right now?

[ordinaryguy]

It is a War Crime according to the Geneva Convention to fail to wear identifiable uniforms.

Citation please.

[Alberta's Child]

It is a War Crime according to the Geneva Convention to fail to wear identifiable uniforms.

That's a silly observation to make. If some foreign country invaded my neighborhood today, I don't even own an "identifiable uniform" to wear while I sniped at them from my bedroom window. Would the Geneva Convention find it more acceptable for me to wear my hockey team's colors than my pajamas?

I'd also point out that under these standards it would also be a "war crime" for the U.S. to have private security contractors operating in a place like Iraq. I'm sure those guys aren't dressed like the typical security guard at an office building in New York or Chicago.

[RandallFlagg]

Nice summary.

The lefties keep trying to shove Geneva in my face. I'd like to shove it back at them with more than, "Terrorists aren't covered by the GC."
You helped.
Thanks.

[pepsionice]

As I will point out...and others have done so in the past...the amount of ammo these guys are carrying isn't exactly alot. If they did have extra ammo...it lay in the HUMV and by moving back...they gave up their chance of survival at that point. As long as you can keep firing...no one is going to advance on you...the minute you run out of bullets...your chances of survival end. That is the sad end of this story.

[dennisw]

At least maybe they were already dead before they were mutilated.

From reading other accounts of Muslim barbarism my guess is most of the mutilation was after death. Such as what was done to their genitals. Their deaths were awful. We kill our enemies cleanly. We don't delight in their painful deaths.

I compare these barbarians to our American Indians of the past. Many tribes were connoisseurs of torture before the white man came. It was prime entertainment around the camp fire for these savages. Why do you think they were called savages?

[Uncle Miltie]

Geneva Convention Selections*
1. Ambulances, military hospitals, and the personnel serving with them are to be recognized as neutral and protected during conflict.
2. Wounded or sick combatants are to be collected and cared for by either side in a conflict.
3. Prisoners Of War (POWs) must not be subjected to torture, medical experimentation, and must be protected against acts of violence, insults, and public curiosity.
4. POWs are required to provide to their captors only their name, rank, date of birth, and military service number.
5. Prisoners are subject to the laws of their captors, and can be tried by their captors’ courts. The captor shall ensure fairness, impartiality, and a competent advocate (lawyer) for the prisoner.
6. Taking of hostages is prohibited.
7. Civilians cannot be forced to do military-related work for an occupying force.
8. Indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations are prohibited.
9. Recruitment of children under age 15 into the armed forces is forbidden.
10. Combatants cannot conceal their allegiance; they must be recognizable as combatants while preparing for or during an attack.
11. Attacks are forbidden on civilians, crops, water sources, cultural objects, and places of worship.
12. Children are to be evacuated to safe areas when possible, and reunited with their families.


*Source: American National Red Cross: “A Summary of the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocols, 2001.

[wita]

It seems to me that in order to be tortured, one must be alive. If you are dead, it is mutilation, or some other word to describe what they might do to a body. At any rate, one can hope they are still alive and recoverable.

[RandallFlagg]

Humph! I understand that it has been understood and accepted that this is a new day, a new kind of warfare. Well if that is the case then perhaps Geneva needs her Convention tweaked a bit.

Naaa. If it was, it'd be done by socialistic leftists who think terrorists are, "Freedom fighters."

[ordinaryguy]

I'd appreciate the primary source. I've read many of the conventions, and I haven't yet come across the stated requirement. I really am interested in reading that clause.

[Jonah Johansen]

I am still mystified by the lack of communications in this hi-tech military. Why were they not in almost constant contact with other soldiers who could have responded instantly to any attack? Why are soldiers sent out in groups too small to defend themselves until re-inforcements arrive.
I watched a show on some special forces guys whose helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan. They landed a short distance from where two other helicopters were shot up only hours earlier, but they never got the information and had no idea they were likely to be shot at as they were landing. The military had a predator drone filming the whole thing, they had all this supposed state of the art equipment and the best training in the world but they landed blind and a half dozen were killed because the most basic piece of information was not given them. It was not just the radios in the helicopter that failed they actually left base after it was already known by their commanders that the two previous helicopters had been attacked near their landing zone.

[2001convSVT]

Good question. I hope that he is hearing up a team to reverse-ambush the 30 insurgents. Ask for volunteers to act like they are helpless and use the same route of the original attack, monitor the soldiers closely and let the insurgents have it when they pop-up to replay there dastardly attack.

[2001convSVT]

heading = hearing

[Revenge of Sith]

I guess the claim that Zarquawi's successor killed them is bu!!$h*t.

[LSUfan]

I have to wonder also. This very small unit seemed too isolated. A fire team should not have been so isolated. Such a small unit can be overwhelmed very quickly.

If this is SOP, then it may call for a change in tactics. However, the fact that this isn't happening all the time tells me that this was a mistake, and not standard operating procedure. On the other hand, the insurgents did not seem to have much trouble massing forces and attacking the isolated unit in a coordinated fashion.

That suggests command, control and communication and possibly casing this same checkpoint for a time before the attack.

[finnigan2]

I would guess that given the known danger in the area that these soldiers were in, that some some lower ranking officer such as a lieutenant, is in a lot of trouble right now for assigning only two soldiers, without backup, in an area where terrorists were known to be present in force. Such a deployment borders on stupidity or negligence or both.

[firewalk]

Reuters calls them rebels...

[travlnmn41]

WHEN IN THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO CLEAN THIS RAT HOLE "TRIANGLE OF DEATH" UP? When are we going to fight this war as it should be fought -- ruthlessly and relentlessly?