Posted on 06/20/2006 4:35:44 AM PDT by pageonetoo
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.
Delegates to the national assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted yesterday to "receive" a policy paper on sex-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. Church officials are enabled to propose "experimental liturgies" with "alternative phrasings" for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.
Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," options include:
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love"
"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chairman Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during yesterday's debate on the changes.
The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to send the paper back for further study, which would have killed it.
A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity still should be used, but Presbyterians should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."..
(Excerpt) Read more at insider.washingtontimes.com ...
So you aren't a conservative, or are you admitting to using violence?
I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility on all issues, everywhere and always.
That is what conservatism should be. Not a movement that enlists government force to achieve political goals.
Good post. Chirst also said that when he came back he came not to bring peace, but a sword. When he talks of the "meek inheriting the earth" he was talking about the time after Satan had been destroyed. The liberals (like many of those so-called Bible Scholars you will see on religious shows broadcast on the History channel) want to destroy the notion that to defeat evil one must fight against it. In this case, the meek inherit a plot of earth six feet under.
Probably at home sleeping, reading the Sunday paper or sitting on the sofa with the remote. A lot of men think religion is for women and kids. It's no wonder the church has been 'feminized.'
Fortunately, the church I attend now is full of families, and the adult singles are about equal male and female. That hasn't been true of most churches I've attended.
Interesting, but not really an answer to my question.
Since you didn't want to answer the last question, lets try this. Give me an example of when conservatives have used violence to enforce what they believe is 'God's will.'
Please don't bother with examples that are hundreds of years old. That would only show us you haven't opened your eyes recently.
Another example of gender-exclusive terminology: "as a mother who cradles her suckling child, as a father who runs to welcome the prodigal home, so do you, Lord, embrace us...."
Granted, the "mother-son-and womb" is extreme!
Your question as it relates to conservatism is unanswerable since no one can agree on what the definition of conservatism is. I have told you what I think it should be.
Give me an example of when conservatives have used violence to enforce what they believe is 'God's will.'
Are laws only suggestions, or will they be enforced by violence if people fail to comply?
Come again? There are many of us who feel helpless in the face of the "fait accompli" hijacking of our church body by the flaming liberals. Nobody asked my opinion if I wanted to recite "Mother, Son and Womb" in my Sunday service. (hehehe, I'd like to see how that nonsense would go over in my congregation.)
I guess if you define 'violence' as being arrested and put in jail, then I'd say the latter is correct.
Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?
Our job is to preach the word of God to the lost.
We haven't been doing our jobs if we don't even notice they are right under our feet. Or in the pulpit. :P
Yes, being arrested at gunpoint is violence. Ever had a gun pointed at you? Then you would know what violence is.
And all laws, even those which do not defend the rights of the citizens are enFORCED by violence or the threat thereof. So we agree, right?
Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?
Those are some of the most bizarre questions or leaps to goofy conclusions I have ever seen. Hard to say what would make a person make such statements.
Not all arrests are done with guns drawn, so I presume you would agree not all arrests are 'violent'.
Ever had a gun pointed at you? Then you would know what violence is.
No, I've not had a gun pointed at me. Apparently, we had different definitions of violence. I don't consider it violent unless bodily injury occurs.
And all laws, even those which do not defend the rights of the citizens are enFORCED by violence or the threat thereof. So we agree, right?
The most we can agree on is that laws are SOMETIMES enforced using violence. Police don't even always threaten violence. Of course, our definitions of 'threatening violence' could be different too.
Those are some of the most bizarre questions or leaps to goofy conclusions I have ever seen.
Not at all, considering your original statement, which was:
Conservatism, OTOH, is rooted in the concept of using violence to enforce what they perceive to be God's will.
So, the questions are still open. They are:
Are you saying only conservatives make and enforce laws? Is making and enforcing laws a bad thing? Are you in favor of doing away with all laws?
If you wish not to answer these questions, don't. But I would have to wonder what you are afraid of revealing by answering them.
wowzer
God is not created No true Christian believes any part of the Trinity is created.
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