Supreme Court: No exclusionary rule for no-knock searches

[NinoFan]

Breaking... Major 5-4 decision. This case was reargued and apparently Alito cast the deciding vote.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

They've got a warrant. Isn't that due process?

But the door is innocent.
You got something against the rights of doors or are you just insennnnnnnnnnsitive?

[GrandEagle]

and can successfully sue the responsible government agency.
Your point is well taken, although I disagree. I can sue only in the unlikely event that I survive the encounter.

I would also disagree that "LE never has the green light to do "anything they please". Yes, there are cops who get way out of control. They're a problem, and should be dealt with severely,"
The only reason that LE doesn't have a green light is because if they don't follow the rules it is useless and the bad guys get away. I have seen things from a non LE point of view a few times.
The city of Mobile has a "traffic " court that isn't even a legal court system according to an attorney that I used. It is a sham where you are not allowed representation and intimidation is used to get you to pay up and shut up.
How you handle it, according to my attorney, is you go, plead innocent, you are found guilty, then you request an appeal, demanding a jury trial. Now you get into a legally operating court system. It is a lot of hassle, and the city makes lots of money because it is simply easier to pay and be quiet.
This is why I moved out of Mobile. I have gotten several "speeding" ticket from the city's mobile, roadside, tax collectors. Only one of which I was actually speeding. Technically two, but 32 in a 30 is really hard to determine on the speedometer.
One I got because I had a radar detector (I believe). Mind you, they are not illegal. I was in bumper to bumper, 4-lane traffic running about 42 in a 45. She pulled me over and gave me a ticket for 69 in a 45. She wrote on the ticket that she clocked me using radar. After reading the ticket, I pointed out that she didn't have radar and she just laughed and said - and I quote -"prove it".
Second instance I pulled up to a red light that had a red arrow pointing to the right. Officer pulled up behind me flashing his headlights and blowing his horn trying to get me to turn right on red. He did not have his blue lights on so I didn't. When the light turned green, I have the turn and he zoomed by me, flipping me off.
Turns out that a red arrow pointing to the right was not defined y Alabama law at the time. I called to complain and was referred to internal affairs. I called, and they took down my information. Within three weeks I had 3 speeding tickets and a reckless driving ticket. Two of the speeding tickets were for 80 MPH - the big ones, the other I had not even pulled out of the apartment parking lot! I backed out of the parking spot, pulled up to the stop sign (about 20 feet), and he hit the blues. All of these were simply made up.
The only way I didn't lose my license was to attend extortion (driving) school in exchange for the city dropping the tickets. I had to attend once for each ticket, and after the second time (as I found out) the school can charge what they want to. All total it cost me just under $800.00 because I called internal affairs.
This is all made possable because there is no penality for LE, no down side. That is when I moved to the county - out of the city. Our Sheriff's department IMHO is one of the finest, and I have had no problems out here (I've been here for 13 years).
I'm going to say this, and I do intend it respectfully to you, a fellow freeper, so I hope you don't get too irritated.
You can talk about how pious and righteous LE is just doing their best to protect us from the bad guys, but I don't buy it. There are some really good guys out there I'll admit, but the power and authority, coupled with the human nature, causes good men to develop a really bad attitude. I don't trust them at all.
I've seen the lie in the witness chair, I've been on the grand jury and had them lie through their teeth, I've seen them simply make up things just because they could. I've heard DEA guys laugh about planting stuff to get the bad guys because "everyone knows they sell drugs". Well, IMHO, these are the guys that belong in jail.

Without strictly enforced rules, we would be in serious trouble. I am opposed to giving LE any "tools" that are subjective. Don't take me wrong, there are some really good guys out there. Our Sheriff's department IMHO is a shining example of that.

[conserv13]

What happens when the police go to the wrong house by accident - it happens - don't knock, bust in the door and some homeowner starts shooting?

[Just another Joe]

That's a different matter and dependent on the circumstances.

OK, Just wanted to get an idea where you were coming from.

I tend to agree that if the police have a warrant, and the correct address, there is need to announce but you don't give them 5 or 10 minutes before you go in.

[sinkspur]

I tend to agree that if the police have a warrant, and the correct address, there is need to announce but you don't give them 5 or 10 minutes before you go in.

Nope. Announce as you're blowing in the door.

[Zon]

Can't help but notice that many of the "Does it really matter? It only affects criminals" arguments here echo those of gun-grabbers with regard to the Second Amendment.

Guilty until proven innocent. So many people on this thread champion it and don't know that they've been manipulated into that position/stand. I want to hear them say they weren't manipulated into taking the  "does it realy matter?"/guilty until proven innocent stand but that they came to the decision on their own. Lack of critical thinking in favor of letting their emotions guide them.

[TChris]

Your experiences are absolutely sickening. They happen far too often, and I agree that those kind of cops should be slammed hard for that kind of crap. I actually plan to install a hidden camera in my car at some point so that anything like this that happens to me will be recorded for presentation in court. LEOs should be exemplary in their behavior, but too many of them are simply on a power trip most of the time.

In particular, those who perjure themselves in court (really, anyone who perjures themselves in court) should be jailed for it. I'm really tired of a justice system that tolerates perjury as "part of the game". Even though it's difficult to prosecute, the very viability of the system depends on people telling the truth. If that's not even expected any more, what's the point?

In short, I mostly agree with you wholeheartedly. I just think that the benefits of the no-knock warrant far outweigh the rare occasions when it goes wrong or is misused. That balance may change at some point, but right now it's mostly a good thing.

[Zon]

But that's no reason to take a critical tool--no-knock warrants--out of the hands of the large number of good, honest, dedicated officers who simply want to nail bad guys before they have the chance to flush all the evidence.

Only user amount of drugs and small time dealers (usually those that deal to support their habit) can be flushed. Dealer quantities of drugs are to large to dispose of quickly. 

Besides that, drug users and even dealers engage in consensual "crimes". They are not murders, thieves or rapists whose targets/victims do not consent.

[NinoFan]

It is against the law, therefore a crime. Why put crimes in quotes?

[TChris]

What happens when the police go to the wrong house by accident - it happens - don't knock, bust in the door and some homeowner starts shooting?

If they're at the wrong address, then a serious tragedy and a massive lawsuit are probably what will happen. And one or more officer's careers should be finished too, at least.

Because of the serious implications of these actions, there should be double, triple and quadruple checks by multiple individuals before the door is breached. Maybe someone from the AG's office should come along in the vehicle as non-LEO eyes too.

Like the stories of surgeons amputating the wrong limb and such, mistakes in this area should just never happen.

[TChris]

...drug users and even dealers engage in consensual "crimes". They are not murders, thieves or rapists whose targets/victims do not consent.

You're joking, right? Do you honestly believe that the drug business doesn't involve any other crime than the sale and receipt of the drugs? You've got to be kidding.

Do you think police agencies dreamed up no-knock warrants just because they like to bash in people's front doors? They exist, and the overwhelming majority of people support them, because critical evidence was being destroyed before officers could get into the building. It's not imaginary, it really happens. It happened a lot. That's why they created the no-knock warrant.

[Zon]

It is against the law, therefore a crime. Why put crimes in quotes?

Drug prohibition laws are unconstitutional. Thus not valid law and cannot be a valid crime. Drug prohibition laws are political agenda laws. That said, even constitutional laws can be political agenda laws -- such as alcohol prohibition made valid via amendment to the constituion..

[Dead Corpse]

Because some of us have a different definition of a "crime". One where there is an actual VICTIM. If you are only hurting yourself, why are we bothering to prosecute you? We should get out of your way and let you destroy your own life. Until you hurt someone else, BFD...

I don't like no-knock raids. Especially with law enforcements occassional "wrong address" type mistakes that end up getting otherwise good cops, and innocent civilians, killed. If they are worried about evidence getting flushed, then they should apprehend their target OUTSIDE the place they want to search. Doesn't seem to hard to me...

[ctdonath2]

It won't always be "scummy meth dealers".
It might be someone with something that was perfectly legal and reasonable, then suddenly redefined as illegal (as the BATFE has been doing lately).
It might be the neighbors of the "scummy meth dealers", invaded without warrant because the wrong house was targeted.
It might be someone who would cooperate when polite social procedure is followed, and who would fight when unknown invaders come crashing thru his door at 4AM.

Yes, the cops - with warrant - have a legal and constitutional approval to enter & search without being polite & patient. The occupants also have the right to act appropriately when strangers burst in unannounced without apparent cause. The two issues are not incompatible.

[ctdonath2]

Bingo!

[GrandEagle]

I just think that the benefits of the no-knock warrant far outweigh the rare occasions when it goes wrong or is misused. That balance may change at some point, but right now it's mostly a good thing.
Thanks for not taking my commenting on my experiences personally. I don't share them much. I think you are correct. We agree on everything except the weight of the benefit and the weight of the downside.
And that I can happily accept. Thanks for the pleasant tone of our discussion.

Have a great day
GE

[Sacajaweau]

Conservative leaning?? or Common sense?? They had the search warrant....And how does one prove that they didn't knock??

[nikos1121]

"Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, a moderate, joined the conservatives in the ruling. He wrote his own opinion, however, to say “it bears repeating that it is a serious matter if law enforcement officers violate the sanctity of the home by ignoring the requisites of lawful entry.” "

A excuse me, but it sounds as though "Kennedy" not Alito or Roberts had the deciding vote. Once again the MSM got it wrong.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

“It weakens, perhaps destroys, much of the practical value of the Constitution’s knock-and-announce protection,” Justice Stephen Breyer wrote for himself and the three other liberal justices.

Isn't this up to the Judge who grants the warrant?

[nikos1121]

" “It weakens, perhaps destroys, much of the practical value of the Constitution’s knock-and-announce protection,” Justice Stephen Breyer wrote..."

Thank God our troops didn't use this fuzzy headed logic before dropping two bombs on Zarqawi... on the other hand...I recogonize that it would have been polite and perhaps proper ettiquette for them to knock on his door once they found him in the rubble.