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How Coherent Is the Human Evolution Story?
Institute for Creation Research ^
| William Hoesch, M.S.
Posted on 06/01/2006 1:12:18 PM PDT by Sopater
"Australopithocines evolved into Homo erectus around 1.5 million years ago and Homo erectus, in turn, evolved into Homo sapiens around 400,000 years ago." This is presented to school children as no less certain than Washington's crossing of the Delaware. The statement makes dual claims: (1) there are fundamental anatomical differences between these three categories, and (2) each occurs in the right time frame. Let us examine these claims.
The anatomical differences between these three groups must be very substantial for the statement to have any meaning. Any anthropologist should be able to spot a Homo erectus on a crowded subway train, even clean-shaven and in a business suit, as different from modern humans. Not so. In fact, leading anthropologists Milford H. Wolpoff (University of Michigan), William S. Laughlin (U. of Connecticut), Gabriel Ward Lasker (Wayne State U.), Kenneth A. R. Kennedy (Cornell), Jerome Cybulski (National Museum of Man, Ottawa), and Donald Johanson (Institute of Human Origins) find the differences between these fossil categories to be so small that they have wondered in print if H. sapiens and H. erectus are one and the same. Fossils classified as H. erectus all share a set of "primitive" traits including a sloping forehead and large brow ridges, yet these all fall comfortably within the range of what are called normal humans today. For example, the very same traits are found in some modern people groups, including Eskimos! Eskimos might not like being referred to as "primitive" humans, yet evolutionists must do so if they are to be consistent. There are a lot of problems with the continued use of this taxon, yet it is essential to the evolution story.
The second truth claim embedded within the statement given to school kids has to do with these fossils occurring in the right time frame. For example, fossils with a H. erectus anatomy should be found exclusively in rocks that are older than those with its youthful descendents, "anatomically-modern" humans. This is decidedly not the case. Putting aside the validity of age-dates for a moment, the range for H. erectus is usually given at between about 1.5 million years and 400,000 years. Studiously avoided in most museum depictions is the fact that fossils with a H. erectus anatomy that are younger than 400,000 years number well over 100, including some as young as 6000 years. Even more amazing is this: fossil humans that are easily interpreted as "anatomically modern" (i.e., non-H. erectus) have been found in rocks that are much older than 1.5 million years. From a dozen different sites have come cranial fragments, including one good skull, teeth, several arm and leg bones, a fossil trackway, and stone structure that each screams out "modern human." The trackways at Laetoli, Tanzania, dated at 3.6 million years, and tibia (leg bone) and humerus (arm bone) from Kanapoi, Kenya, dated at 3.5 million, are especially significant for these pre-date even "Lucy," the celebrated upright-walking ape. These embarrassments have been revised, reinterpreted, and re-dated, but will not go away.
Keep these things in mind the next time you hear of a "missing link" being reported, for example, between H. erectus and modern man (as has been in the recent popular press). God made His creatures to reproduce "after their own kind," and it appears from the fossils that they have done just that.
* William A. Hoesch, M.S. geology, is an ICR Research Assistant in Geology.
TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: creation; crevo; evolution; humanorigins; ignoranceisstrength; pavlovian; science; usualsuspects; youngearthcultists
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To: Dimensio; Echo Talon
Talon,
You have won the point(s)
This is all language (by inference or code) acknowledging that. He will now cement the point(s) for you with more of the same, and perhaps some demands and then insisting you have not met the demands.
Wolf
201
posted on
06/01/2006 10:28:50 PM PDT
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: Dimensio
You know all the answers, ask yourself.
202
posted on
06/01/2006 10:51:49 PM PDT
by
F.J. Mitchell
(Dear US Senators, Reps. and Mr. President: Why are y'all abetting the destruction of our culture?)
To: vetsvette
I am a reasonable fellow, and not a scientist. Most of what Darwin says I believe, as do most educated Westerners with any familiarity with farm animals. I believe that the Earth is old, that some of the old Testament is not meant to be taken as fact, such as the book of Jonah, and that boneheads perish faster than the sapient if gimmicrats are out of power. It is incrementalism that is the rub, and no matter how I ponder this most fanciful theory, the more dubious it seems. Now please, let us keep this forum civil.
To: fabian
<< Just a little bit further or closer to the sun and we could not exist on earth. And the rotations and axis changes occur at mathematicaly precise times. Someone had to set that up. >>
Halliburton?
To: F.J. Mitchell
You know all the answers,
I have made no such claim.
I note that you still have not supported your initial claim with evidence.
205
posted on
06/01/2006 11:16:39 PM PDT
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: Dimensio
None are so blind as those who choose not to see. Evidence ignored is evidence denied, while it is being tripped over.
206
posted on
06/01/2006 11:24:20 PM PDT
by
F.J. Mitchell
(Dear US Senators, Reps. and Mr. President: Why are y'all abetting the destruction of our culture?)
To: F.J. Mitchell
None are so blind as those who choose not to see.
This statement is not an answer to the question that I asked to you in post #138.
Evidence ignored is evidence denied, while it is being tripped over.
You have thus far referenced no evidence.
207
posted on
06/01/2006 11:28:50 PM PDT
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: Coyoteman; Echo Talon; Gaffer
The following article from AIG has a great discusion of erectus, and why it's most likely a variation of modern humans.
Homo erectus 'to' modern man: evolution or human variability?
I see Coyoteman once again posted the often debunked chart of skulls. And Gaffer gave it all the respect it was due. HA!
Coyoteman if you are going to post the skull chart, you really ought to include the following disclaimers, because it's really dishonest not to.
- Skull F (lucy-1470)has since been reconstructed and is clearly an ape with a sloping face instead of a flat one. This article talks about that too.
- And that the Neanderthal skulls aren't to scale, they were larger than modern humans and were our contemporaries.
- Not to mention the complete nonsense of a chart that starts with a Modern chimp then goes to ape fossils, then human fossils and back to modern humans.
Below is an excerpt about the Custance findings
"There are a number of possible, even probable, non-evolutionary explanations for this diversity in the human species, and these are succinctly outlined in the works of Lubenow and Beasley.49,50"
"Also, Custance has argued convincingly that the so-called 'primitive' erectus and Neanderthal features are almost entirely due to the functioning of the jaw mechanism which would affect the size and shape of brow ridges, the forehead and the zygomatic arch.51 On page 183 Custance finds that the 'primitive' facial and skull features have nothing to do with evolution, but are due to the eating of uncooked or partially-cooked foods, especially in childhood, thus strengthening the jaw mechanism, causing it to be- come more massive in structure, and this process deforms the skull by depressing the forehead, making the brow ridges more prominent, and forces outwards the zygomatic arch, thus accentuating the cheek bones. If these people also chewed hides and skins of animals for softening, this would also have had a similar effect. This effect is increased by the tugging of flesh from the bones, and might be particularly pronounced when the diet, especially of juveniles, is lacking in bone-hardening substances such as calcium. By mid-adolescence these features then would become 'set in concrete' as adult characters."
"Custance cites known examples, and points out that such authorities as Hooten, Howells, Hrdlicka and others were well aware of this.52 Thus, such a process, occurring in individuals, could well account for many erectus and Neanderthal features. Custance's works should be compulsory reading for all anthropologists, whether creationist or evolutionist."
208
posted on
06/02/2006 12:36:06 AM PDT
by
DannyTN
To: DannyTN
209
posted on
06/02/2006 12:53:41 AM PDT
by
RunningWolf
(Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
To: F.J. Mitchell
So when are you going to show your list of geniuses?
210
posted on
06/02/2006 1:27:28 AM PDT
by
stands2reason
(You cannot bully or insult conservatives into supporting your guy.)
To: F.J. Mitchell
Show one rude post by Coyoteman or take back your assertion.
211
posted on
06/02/2006 1:29:41 AM PDT
by
stands2reason
(You cannot bully or insult conservatives into supporting your guy.)
To: Echo Talon
your faith in man is strong my friend.Yours is as well.
212
posted on
06/02/2006 1:36:41 AM PDT
by
stands2reason
(You cannot bully or insult conservatives into supporting your guy.)
To: Elpasser
If you really believe in evolution, you should have the intellectual honesty to renounce God and embrace aethiesm, because that's the real upshot. How does evolution make God impossible?
213
posted on
06/02/2006 1:41:06 AM PDT
by
stands2reason
(You cannot bully or insult conservatives into supporting your guy.)
To: Elpasser
If you really believe in evolution, you should have the intellectual honesty to renounce God and embrace aethiesm, because that's the real upshot.
The theory of evolution does not state or imply that no deities exist. If you had actually studied the theory of evolution, as you claim, you would know this.
214
posted on
06/02/2006 1:52:08 AM PDT
by
Dimensio
(http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
To: stands2reason; F.J. Mitchell; Coyoteman
"Show one rude post by Coyoteman or take back your assertion."Let Me! Let Me! Let Me! WHAT FUN!!!
Let's examine every post Coyoteman has made in this thread to see if it's rude or not.
- Post #7, RUDE, Implies ICR is not trustworthy. Slanders their goals.
- Post #8, RUDE Uses the total number of fossils to try to imply that they are all supportive of evolution when in fact only a very small percentage are. Then using this overstated info, rudely and haughtily dimisses Echo with "So much for your 'couple of bones' contention".
- Post #56, RUDE accuses Echo of "blowing smoke" and being a "troll"
- Post #69, RUDE implies Echo is stupid for not trusting the so-called experts like Coyoteman. "You might not be able to, but we can"
- Post #75 RUDE insults Echo's education while completely ignoring Echo's point about imaginary species.
- Post #88 NO RUDENESS!
- Post #106 No Rudeness, but he does post a chart that has known problems that have been pointed out to him in the past without acknowledgint those problems.
- Post 112 No Rudeness!
- Post 117 RUDE Accuses Creationists of frequently misrepresenting science. Also accuses Creationists of attacking science itself instead of certain evolutionist methods and/or conclusions, thereby implying Creationists are anti-science when they are not.
- Post 127 RUDE Posts California Indian creation story implying all cultures, religions and creation stories are equal. This is Coyoteman's trademark rude posts.
- Post 129 RUDE Posts another Indiean Creation story implying all cultures, religions and creation stories are equal.
- Post 131 No Rudeness
- Post 135, RUDE last line insults Elders.
- Post 143, No Rudeness, jokingly claims to be always nice.
- Post 159, No Rudeness, even offers an apology for allegedly calling DaveLoneRanger an A**hole.
- Post 167, RUDE says F.J. Mitchell doesn't know anything about his posting history and style.
- Post 172, NO RUDENESS Does admit to biting sarcasm and appears to successfully defend against DaveLoneRanger's allegation. Again offers apology.
- Post 175, No Rudeness
- Post 179, No Rudeness, but is still appears to be overstating the Number of fossils that are actually relevant to evolution.
Summary
- Of Coyote's 19 posts, 10 were deemed rude, 9 were not.
- However there were two apologies to an as yet unsubstantiated allegation of vulgar name calling, which of itself is a noteworthy positive.
215
posted on
06/02/2006 2:50:52 AM PDT
by
DannyTN
To: Coyoteman
For my part
- Calling you dishonest for not posting disclaimers for known problems with the skull chart was rude. PS, it's a technique I learned from Evo's here.
- My enthusiam that I approached the rudeness analysis of your posts was also rude.
That makes me 2 for 2.
216
posted on
06/02/2006 3:07:15 AM PDT
by
DannyTN
Comment #217 Removed by Moderator
Comment #218 Removed by Moderator
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
evidence? Other than the complexity of the human design? or the design of the universe at large, or the fact that throughout the scriptures they pointed out certain scientific findings around 7 or 8 thousand years before their scientific discovery? Oh but thats right, these are just conjecture, nothing like the statement "Well these fossils look like man evolved, hmmm looks like evidence to me." nah that's not conjecture to me. I still say these fossils are just tragically deformed humans, or apes, whichever the case may be, not steps in some imaginary progression of man from cosmic sludge.
219
posted on
06/02/2006 4:01:32 AM PDT
by
whispering out loud
(the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
To: Dimensio
Curious? Who "told" you this statement? I do not believe that it is accurate.An antrhopologist who thought most archiologists were able to get away with sloppy work jsut because they could show off bones.
220
posted on
06/02/2006 4:41:23 AM PDT
by
pikachu
(I do not see the glass as half full or half empty but as the Jack Daniels is gone and the ice melted)
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