Posted on 06/01/2006 9:11:58 AM PDT by AmericanYankee
insurgents rule Sunni citadel
Guardian gains rare access to Iraqi town and finds it fully in control of 'mujahideen'
Omer Mahdi in Haditha and Rory Carroll in Baghdad Monday August 22, 2005 The Guardian
The executions are carried out at dawn on Haqlania bridge, the entrance to Haditha. A small crowd usually turns up to watch even though the killings are filmed and made available on DVD in the market the same afternoon. One of last week's victims was a young man in a black tracksuit. Like the others he was left on his belly by the blue iron railings at the bridge's southern end. His severed head rested on his back, facing Baghdad. Children cheered when they heard that the next day's spectacle would be a double bill: two decapitations. A man named Watban and his brother had been found guilty of spying.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Would you like to be added to the Irey/Murtha Ping list?
oh yeah..the ever socially conscious mujahideen...this story is only missing the beaded slippers and flying carpet...there's just so many unexplained things going on...since this happened in NOV of last year..al jeezera has been quiet...kerry has been quiet...dean has been quiet..for creeps sake...even OBL didn't mention anything about it (guess Murtha has to call BINNY and tell him to whip it up some)....just too quiet, there's just TOO MANY oddities about this story
Doogle
Surround Haditha at night with an overwhelming force. Close off all avenues of escape, and then bomb, shell, and rocket the entire town until it's a smoking pile of rubble and dead bodies. Then the people of the next town the insurgents try to take over will fight back.
Making an example of a town or city like that is a very harsh remedy, but it's been the normal way of putting down insurgencies or rebellions in the Arab/Islamic world for 14 centuries, except for the modern weaponry of course. Lord Kitchener's Egyptian troops used repeating rifles, bayonets, gunboat artillery, and Maxim machine guns to put down all opposition in the walled city of Omdurman in 1898. The hostile towns farther up the Nile heard of the massive slaughter and destruction from Omdurman's terrified refugees and would not allow the Mahdi's Dervish forces retreating helter skelter from the rout at the Kherri Plain to occupy their towns.
In much earlier times Mohammed's or Saladin's troops would have used swords, arrows, and lances to accomplish the same end. Arabs understand that kind of bloody tactic because it's their traditional way of waging war.
Irrelivent on this issue, concerning the accusation of killing innocent people, still in the town after evacuation?
It's irrelevant because your definition of 'innocent' has no bearing on whether or not the Marines comitted a crime. The people in the house could be complete bystanders, or Al Qaida in Iraq sympathizers, but unless they posed an armed threat, there's no legal way to engage and kill them.
Even if the civilians knew about the IED ambush and said nothing. In fact, even if they planted it and set it off, there's really no way to legally hunt them down and kill them. If they're unarmed, you can't take them out, even if they were trying to kill you 10 seconds ago. Period. That's the law.
So, given that the initial Marine report was wrong, and the civilians were not killed by an IED blast, it's going to be an uphill battle to prove that this was a lawful engagement.
In a perfect world, we'd take things like 'hostile intent' into account, but this ain't a perfect world. It's Iraq.
That's exactly right. I can remember a few times where kids would pretend to fire imaginary RPGs at us, and just laugh at our convoys going by. It was unnerving, but at least you know where you stood with them.
Sometimes the kids look happy to see you, sometimes they just watch. You never really know what they're thinking though, or if their parents just tell them, 'Wave to the Americans, make them think we're friends'.
That's what I keep saying. The media is reporting on what the people are saying and no question is raised about their reliability as witnesses!!!! They are liars. They have proven that. I am sick of it. They watch decapitations as entertainment and now they say our Marines killed people in cold blood!!! B##tards!!!!
A severe as$ kicking can solve more problems then most suspect! - Which is exactly what Haditha and Ramadi both need (and have for some time).
A large segment of the people still in Haditha support the insurgents (in one degree or another)....That town needs to be squared off and a mandated women and children leave notice be placed - 36 hours and then we come punch these SOB's right in the face - Take the fight too them (we win every time this is done...big time). Ditto this for Ramadi -
Regarding the specific situation involving this group of Marines....They most certainly should be given the benefit of the doubt..for starters (and in all reality they were by the military)....
The further reality is we don't exactly know yet what took place in terms of if undue force was used (though that term can be vague to begin with...let alone in a war zone that is hot).
If one or two of these Marines acted way out of bounds in accordance with ROE's....they will be punished. And rightfully so. But at the very least they deserve the benefit of the doubt until there is no question to their actions.
Furthermore even if ROE's were not followed completely and a Marine or two acted with undue force...that says nothing about these victims being all innocent. Which the MSM is clearly trying to paint as the premise.
It is clear that some of them weren't completely innocent (if not all of them to a certain degree). In that the one 9-year old openly admits on video tape that she knew (and her family) of the placed IED. Knew where it was placed, who it was going to hit and covered her ears in anticipation of this IED going off. That speaks volumes. Especially when one understand Haditha, Iraq...and who lives there.
This IED was an LOS IED...that means the person who was the detonator was close to the scene, in a safe zone (with a view)....very likely could have been from one of these homes....(which again clearly gives one reason for pause regarding the innocence of these family when one of the children has admitted on tape that they knew about the IED and the exact moment it was going to go off).
Have you dug into that site? It is anti-Israeli. To the point that they sent us to Iraq and the IDF is making the shape charges that are being used against our men.
Yes and thanks.
I'm not familiar with the site, but I am familiar with Bill Roggio's work which was cited there.
Bill's site is down and I couldn't search for the original article.
Here's his original site:
http://billroggio.com/
He has also joined the Counterterrorism Blog folks, but he's on embed in Afghanistan now:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/
I went to the bottom of the page and clicked Home to this link.
http://judicial-inc.biz/Mossad_bombs__sophisticated.htm
It had the anti-Israeli stuff. See if this link works. Then read down the page.
Keeps timing out on me.
Maybe it's my computer.
Be sure to check out this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641987/posts
Anybody want to ping lugsoul and sinkspur?
True.
Hard to say. That's way out in far western Anbar Province. I've never been out that way. The Syrians have probably infested that place.
Sounds like Haditha needs a Fallujah-like scrutinizing. (OK, that's the nice word for it.)
Unless one takes the position that anyone in a jihadi dominated town is as worthy of being killed as a jihadi, it is only slightly relevant to the 'incident' story. This article says Haditha is a town of 90,000. If 90,000 in that town are either jihadis or helpful jihadi sympathisers, then this war is already over. Because there are other towns just like it.
For those who take the 'Haditha delenda est' line, there are a couple of points to consider. First, the 'make an example for the other Sunnis to see' was part of the point with Fallujah. That point seems not to have taken. Second, someone needs to come up with a new reason why we are in Iraq. If the fact of the matter is that we need 'total war,' then it is a bit disingenuous to continue the line that we are there to 'help' or 'liberate' these people. Unless we mean 'liberating' their souls from their mortal bodies.
This town must be whipped out. It is worse than Fallujah 18 months ago before the Fallujans learned what is to face the might of the US military.
BBTTT
Appreciate your voice in this, as always.
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