White House: Haditha details to be public

AP/Yahoo ^ | 5/31/06 | Unknown

[Coop]

... Snow said that he has been assured by the Pentagon that "all the details" will be made available...

Rep. John Murtha... has said Marines shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into two homes and shot others.

On Tuesday, [Snow] said President Bush learned of the killings only after a reporter from Time magazine asked questions...

Asked when Bush was first briefed about the events in Haditha, an insurgent stronghold in western Iraq, Snow replied Tuesday: "When a Time reporter first made the call."

According to the attorney for one of three Marine Corps officers relieved of command from a Marine battalion are not targets of investigations into whether their troops killed the civilians or tried to cover it up.

Meanwhile, Lance Cpl. James Crossan of North Bend, Wash., who was injured in the roadside bomb attack in Haditha, told a Seattle television station that some of the Marines might have snapped after seeing one of their own killed in action.

"So, I think they were just blinded by hate ... and they just lost control," Crossan told KING-TV, which aired the interview Tuesday.

The targets... are about a dozen enlisted Marines, according to Hackett, a Marine reservist and Iraqi war veteran who represents Kimber... [Hackett] said the highest ranking among those under investigation is a staff sergeant who led the four-vehicle convoy that was hit by the bomb.

Kimber... was relieved of command last month because his subordinates... used profanity and criticized the performance of Iraqi security services during an interview with Britain's Sky News TV...

...Hackett told The Associated Press by telephone. "He's not under investigation for anything related to what has played out in the press." [snip]

[SevenMinusOne]

You clearly have refused to watch the video (for some odd reason) where this girl openly admits to knowing of the IED and when it is going to go off. Proving that at least her and her family were aware of what was going to take place...and they were by no means simply innocent bystanders with no reason to be involved in this situation whatsoever. They clearly were involved to some degree. That this was an LOS IED leads one to believe they very well could have been much more involved.

You have also clearly posted (post after post) suggesting something definitely wrong happened (and have said because the WH commented on it and the MSM is commenting on it...it shows it to be true) - Perverted logic there?

Yes, something clearly did happen there (things, ugly things where people die happen every day in war). But just like in plenty of other cases where soldiers are suspected of doing this or that (including murder)....what routinely happens when all the facts come out....is those chargers are not up held.

When what turns out what happened...is war happened. And war is ugly.

So go show me one of your posts where you suggest this may be the outcome here! - Go link me to one of your posts where you suggest there is the possibility that these people within these homes very well could have been helping the insurgents? - You haven't done this once in the dozens and dozens of posts I've read of yours today. Come on, show me where you have posted that the Marines very well may be innocent. I can show you plenty of your posts where you assume all these Iraqi individuals were innocent.

Steel Wolf's posts have gone right along with mine - He says if even if they were not innocent "along" with being non-threatening then our ROE don't allow for us to fire on them. However, he clearly does not know if they were posing a threat (as him and I have discussed this and come to the same agreement). If those Marines did feel threatened they have every right to react.

You keep insisting that you know what small arms fire took place ...You don't know d*ck about that. You keep insisting that you know nothing of this 9-10 year old girl ...yet I've given you a link to a video showing her say this.

You at every turn have been negative. That is the reality. Why? I've clearly stated that if Marines point blank executed nonthreatening Iraqi's they will be punished. Why haven't you posted as often that these Marines may very be innocent?

Again it is Marines and Soldiers who are giving their lives for Iraqi's...who are risking their lives hundreds of times a week for Iraqi's. I've not seen one of your posts where you acknowledge this.

[Velveeta]

The military only coughs up monetary "damages" when it is culpable in a death.

Bovine excrement.

Under the US "consequence management" system, there is a maximum payout of $2,500 per claim.

Any Iraqi can file a claim with US forces for loss or damage caused by military operations. In Rawah, there are twice weekly payment sessions, held at a run-down government building. Claimants, clutching photographic proof of broken doors, smashed windows and demolished homes, queue up in an effort to collect from a limited pool of money.

Some claimants are genuine; others try to claim cash for damage unrelated to US military operations.

The claims are investigated and, if found to be legitimate, payments are made according to a sliding scale. A damaged high-value car or dead family member brings $2,500, while a television destroyed by a hand-grenade is valued at $350.

One entry in the 4/14 Cavalry compensation log reads: "blown-up house, pay $1,300". Another: "destroyed boat, $20". Others include a blown-up potato field and irrigation equipment ($2,000), a damaged door in a hospital ($50) and a burned-down store ($2,500).

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=2208712005

[snoringbear]

As a Vietnam Vet, I can remember the bad old days of the Mie Lie incident and how the press hammered our troops over that one. In the end analysis it turned out that the troops of the Americal Division were sent into the field much too soon as they were really green and had a very low mix of seasoned troops among them to set an example for the nubies. Of course, the senior brass found a poor hapless "butter bar - Lt. Calley" to take the rap for their incompetence and mistakes which is probably what will happen with this Haditha incident as well. By the way, this has nothing to do with Haditha but I have always felt that the main reason Colin Powell has always refused to run for prez is that he knows that he could not stand the close scrutiny about his role in the Americal Division and the Mie Lie incident in particular. Just my opinion though...

[sinkspur]

You keep insisting that you know what small arms fire took place ...You don't know d*ck about that.

I've never said a word about small arms fire.

You lie and lie and lie about what I haven't said, and don't seem to understand what I have said.

And, no matter how much I try to explain, you just put your veneer on it, and go off with your accusations.

You don't read my posts. I have said that the Marines may very well be innocent. I have also said that General Pace and the President don't seem to be giving that indication, however.

You're wearing me out with your misrepresentations.

[sinkspur]

A damaged high-value car or dead family member brings $2,500

Thank you for providing evidence for my post.

[Steel Wolf]

However, he clearly does not know if they were posing a threat (as him and I have discussed this and come to the same agreement). If those Marines did feel threatened they have every right to react.

I'm still hoping against hope that we have evidence of some kind that we were taking fire before, during or after the IED hit. Damaged humvees, bullet wounds, anything that will point to a need to return fire on the houses.

The problem is that there was an incorrect report filed, and now no one wants to do or say anything until it's 100% verified. The only problem I see there is that we'll be to slow to counteract the propaganda, and it'll turn into another 'Massacre at Jenin refugee camp' made-for-TV atrocity. Insurgents in Iraq, especially the AQI guys, love to spin events and make propaganda out of thin air.

We also need to be ready for the possibility that the story is true. I know that's not a popular idea right now, but fact of the matter is, bad things happen in war. People do make mistakes. It's a miracle that it's not happened yet, but the longer you leave people in harms way, the greater the odds something ugly will happen.

I honestly don't know how this is going to play out, but we should hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

[moneypenny]

I'm sorry first of all I have already been told he was a Col and acknowledge and thanked. But I'll do the same for you acknowledged and thank you.
But I don't recall calling him a war hero in any way, if anything he is a hateful person with absolutely no idea as to what he says. He hates the President so bad that he will do anything to hurt him and one good way is through our soldiers. He truthfully has very little experience and very little brains.

[SevenMinusOne]

The problem is that there was an incorrect report filed, and now no one wants to do or say anything until it's 100% verified.

That says it all completely about where we are at (in terms of getting the complete facts out now) - Without question -

However that isn't stopping the Murtha's, MSM and anti-war types from running over top of one another screaming "completely innocent Iraqi's massacred for no reason whatsoever).

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"The Marines do not start up investigations into capital charges based on reports from "suspect sources." "

Actually, the only evidence we have that the investigation is investigating "capital charges" comes from the news media who quotes unnamed sources. I find that suspect to begin with.

[Cementjungle]

Combat-related news like this would not reach the President until such time as an accusation of atrocity and cover-up had been made. He was briefed at the appropriate time.

Part of the job of the POTUS is to be leader of his political party. I agree that he's not expected to micromanage, and I would argue that he shouldn't, but this particular event had all the makings of a political bombshell. From that angle, he should be at least aware of what's going on.

[SevenMinusOne]

I've never said a word about small arms fire.

You lie and lie and lie about what I haven't said, and don't seem to understand what I have said.

We are done - I've tried to stay intellectually honest with you - I've tried to clearly state if any Marine executed an innocent nonthreatening Iraqi they should be punished.

I have clearly shown you links to the Iraqi girl clearly stating she (and her family then) knew of the IED. I've explained the situation on the ground in Haditha at the time, The LOS IED, etc, etc, etc -

Yet you post and then call others liars for calling you out on it - I'm done with you - Here is your post #Post #338 -

Shoot the parents. Don't shoot the kids. These people were found in their homes, and there were no shots through the outside walls of the houses.

There are several others of your posts claiming what you say you know regarding small arms fire - As I said you don't know d*ck about what small arms fire happened that morning....yet you post that we all do know what type of small arms fire took place and from where or where not it must have occurred.

[sinkspur]

I'm done with you

Thank you, Jesus!

[death2tyrants]

"It was here "

Where? I once again see no source from you. Why would a prime minister comment on an ongoing investigation in this fashion? Why do you think people will believe your claims on the Free Republic? Where is your source for this claim? You also made this claim:
"there were no shots through the outside walls of the houses", and you ignored those who asked you for verification. Why?

[freema]

Sure I'll take a shot. But don't you dare accuse me of hitting you if you stand right there as a target. I just hate that you are so righteously indignant about the Marines LYING about an IED killing these poor innocents.

According to military officials, the Marines say they then started taking fire from the direction of a second house, prompting them to break down the door of that house and throw in a grenade, blowing up a propane tank in the kitchen. The Marines then began firing, killing eight residents—including the owner, his wife, the owner's sister, a 2-year-old son and three young daughters.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1174649-2,00.html

[Valin]

Bump.

[Valin]

Why not wait until ALL the fact are out?
/radical concept

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"No autopsies were done. The Military has asked the families if the bodies can be exhumed but so far none of them are willing to let that happen."

Then how in the world, can the subsequent investigation prove that the initial investigation was wrong? How can anyone prove that the people that died that day, died of gunshot wounds vs shrapnel if there is no way to prove time of death?

This is not looking good for the media and Murtha, unless there were autopsies done.

[freema]

Oh, and just for the record...

I don't consider any of this as a silly game.

[MNJohnnie]

Here you go Lug and Sink, Here is a sample of the some of your very first post on this thread. Spare us the fraudulent claims about being "Well spoken, respected members" of this community. You two are nothing but a pair of flame trolls who wander around looking for a fight. No one here respect that sort of behavior.

Sinkspur Where are you getting this? Just making stuff up? Post 185 this thread.

Lugsoul I was obviously being too generous. You can't be a day over 10 years old.

Post 194 this thread.

[MNJohnnie]

THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph

Such marvelous words for our times too.