Of course, that's what they're afraid of.
Posted on 05/31/2006 6:10:01 AM PDT by holymoly
Senate likely to pass bill allowing citizens to shoot when threatened
Picture this: A homeless man comes up to you and in a demanding voice asks for money. You have no knowledge if he is armed, and he says nothing to suggest he is. Still, you feel threatened. You are carrying a pistol legally because of the state’s concealed weapon law. You pull it out and shoot him.
After an investigation, police determine that you acted legally — not in self-defense against someone threatening to cause you bodily harm, but simply because you felt threatened.
Sound like a farfetched scenario? Not if the state Legislature approves a new law already enacted in 10 other states.
The state Senate may soon give citizens the right to shoot first and ask questions later when it votes on a bill as early as this week that would give Michigan citizens the right to use deadly force if they feel threatened, whether it be at home, in their car or on the street.
As it stands now, those who feel they are in danger have a “duty to retreat” before they can legally use force. The legislation would repeal that obligation, allowing a person to “stand his or her ground” in self-defense.
That concerns Lansing police Chief Mark Alley, who says that right could be taken too far. “What worries me are the cases that may or may not happen like a panhandler asking for money who is verbally aggressive,” Alley says. “I would certainly hate to see that end with deadly force.”
State Rep. Rick Jones, R-Grand Ledge, who introduced the bill in the House last year, says he is confident the bill — which opponents have dubbed “Shoot First,” “License to Murder” and “Make my Day,” among other dubious monikers — will pass the Senate.
Jones says people’s right to protect themselves should extend beyond the home. “Is your life worth less outside your home?” Jones says. “If a woman was walking through an alley, she should be able to pick up a rock and defend herself. I look at this as a victims’ rights bill, and I have a deep belief in this.”
But Carolynne Jarvis, executive director of Michigan Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence: On Target Coalition, says the bill goes far beyond a person’s right to protect himself. “People don’t understand the impact it will have on society over time,” Jarvis says. “Instead of solving problems, we are going to empower people to shoot first.” “There’s the belief that an armed society is a polite society,” Jarvis says. “I believe that an armed society is actually an intimidated society. The question is, is this what we want for Michigan?”
The bill is part of a nationwide effort by the National Rifle Association to repeal similar duty to retreat laws. The NRA has already been successful with measures in Georgia, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Mississippi, South Dakota, Arizona, Kansas, Idaho, Indiana and Florida.
“The NRA looks at it as a freedom that’s given to people that should be,” says Thomas Butler, chairman of Friends of the NRA, a foundation that supports the pro-gun lobbying group. The NRA “believes that the Second Amendment should be defended at all costs,” Butler says. “We’re not talking about shoot-em-up cowboys. We’re just talking about defending ourselves.”
However, the law already gives citizens the right to protect themselves, says Shikha Hamilton, state president of the Million Mom March chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Additional measures would just be overkill, Hamilton says.
“There’s no crisis going on,” Hamilton says. “Not one person has explained the need for this law other than the NRA pushing for it. Other than that, there is no basis for it.”
Opponents of the bill cite a litany of concerns, including a potential increase in gang violence, the taking of authority out of the hands of police officials and into the hands of citizens, and the safety of innocent bystanders. But Jones, a 34-year veteran of law enforcement, says there is no cause for alarm.
“This legislation isn’t going to change anything, it won’t make us more violent,” Jones said. “Part of this legislation says that you must have a reasonable belief that you are in imminent danger of death, great bodily harm or rape.”
If the Senate passes the bill, it will go to the desk of Gov. Jennifer Granholm for final approval. “The smartest thing Granholm can do is be outspoken on why this legislation does not make sense for Michigan,” Jarvis says. “I hope she won’t sign, but I don’t know what her intentions are. We certainly hope she would veto if it came to her.”
The governor’s press secretary, Liz Boyd, did not return a message left for her Tuesday.
“There’s no sense in a veto for it,” says Yvonne Joseph, who works at Classic Arms Co. on Lansing's north side. “It’s only common sense, and we now have a concealed weapon law that says you can legally carry firearms without fear of litigation. That’s what the whole thing is in a nutshell.”
If anyone walked into the store, which her mother owns, and seriously threatened her coworkers or customers, Joseph says she wouldn’t think twice about shooting him.
But even with a gun strapped to her chest and racks of other guns lining the walls at the gun shop, Joseph acknowledges there are “pros and cons to both sides.”
“Nobody should be shooting at anybody,” Joseph says, “but nobody should be doing a lot of things in this culture.”
Of course, that's what they're afraid of.
Lansing is nothing but a smelly armpit.
One can only hope that you don't get a similar problem in your new location. Good luck with that.
Could we safely have firearms in the house? Probably. It's a little late in the game for it now, anyway.
Never too late. My kid who was extremely curious, never got into my firearms when told not to, and when old enough (10) was given firearms chores (ie stripping and cleaning) and training which removed all of the mystery. Nothing like having to strip, clean, and reassemble along with safety and marksmanship training to remove any temptation to mess with firearms in an unsafe manner.
I've had bums come up to me and they don't ask, they straight up demand.
One of their favorite lines is "What'chu you got for me man?"
To which I reply ".45 hollow points if you don't get the F*#% out of my face!!"
But I've never shot one of them............
Good Law, makes scum quite a bit more apprehensive about accosting someone on the street.
Get a handgun or a shotgun and keep it accessible to you but not the kids. You may even want to let the squatter see it on your waistband. In fact, invite a few friends over fully armed for a "gun club meeting." The squatter might think better about his choice of location and leave.
Depending on their ages, either keep it unloaded (with magazines nearby) or teach them how to use it, and that if they do use it without you around, they better shoot themselves, otherwise you'll do it for them. (sarcasm)
Join NRA. Have them send you an Eddie Eagle Gunsafe package to train your kids how to stay away from firearms.
You have a true threat that far outweighs the unlikely possibility of an accidental shooting by your kids. Keep in mind, true accidental shootings of children are only about 80 per year.
Translated from liberalese this means an obligation to be a victim.
IMHO people are much more civil if they suspect that you are armed and you have a legal right to defend yourself against hostile intentions.
It would spray blood infected with AIDS, herpes, and hepatitis all over the pavement.
That's a serious public health hazard.
I'd like to think that this law would bring about a marked improvement in common courtesy and civility among my fellow Michiganders.
Darn - I didn't think of that.
Some folks can worry about what the government says when it comes to self defense. To a degree I guess I care what they say also. But...
If I am threatened I will respond regardless of what liberal lefties say I should do. Here in my state you are required to make attempt to flee, yes that even applies to your own home, before you can apply deadly force.
We have no carry laws here, just laws banniong that action. This allows criminals to attack people that are out and about becasue they KNOW those folks are not armed with anything to defend themselves. This policy is as backwards as it gets imho.
Make no mistake about it, if me or my family are threatened I have zero remorse shooting my way to safety if that is what it takes. If the law bars me from doing so then so be it. I will be happy to sit in front of a jury and explain my actions. I would even take any punishment they felt neccesary due to my respect for the rule of law.
I will NOT however forgo my natural right to self defense no matter what any politician or law states. I have shot a gun in defense of myself and my famliy in the past and will again if the need arises. I almost went to jail that time but I would do the same thing again without a second thought.
Guns do not kill people. People kill people. Stop going after the guns and go after the people, then, finally, we might actually make progress in this battle.
"That concerns Lansing police Chief Mark Alley, who says that right could be taken too far. “What worries me are the cases that may or may not happen like a panhandler asking for money who is verbally aggressive,” Alley says. “I would certainly hate to see that end with deadly force.” "
Mark Alley: Defender of the homeless' right to be verbally aggressive!
“There’s no crisis going on,” Hamilton [of the Million Mom March] says. “Not one person has explained the need for this law other than the NRA pushing for it. Other than that, there is no basis for it.”
This from the group that screams "CRISIS" every time there's a shooting. Now, when we propose allowing the victim to defend themselves, suddenly there's no crisis. Does this mean there's no need for ANY new gun laws to be passed, hmmm?
"Opponents of the bill Police cite a litany of concerns, including...the taking of authority out of the hands of police officials and into the hands of citizens...
There...that's better...
The whole thing reads like a research paper written by a high school student. Arguments conducive to the law are presented, then "refuted" with anti-gun sentiments. Nothing about other states' success with stand-your-ground laws is mentioned. Wouldn't want too many pesky facts to get in the way of some good quality brainwashing, now would we?
Nice.
We have a bid in on a home already. It is in a country village with a population 1/3 the size of my neighborhood, and crime (with the exception of occasional domestic disturbances) is virtually nonexistent. By "late in the game," I was referring to the fact that we are on our way out of this pit. Purchasing and learning to use a handgun would probably take an estimated 6 weeks, if one had a lot of time on their hands, which I do not have.
I love the way they slap labels on these proposed laws that make them sound like legalized, cold blooded murder.
Nor have I, but I knocked three teeth out of the mouth of one that put his filthy stinking hands on me after I refused to show him how much cash I had on my person.
The altercation occurred at a self-serve gas station and lasted about 3 minutes and ended when I pulled my .45 from behind my back and decided to slap him in the mouth with it, instead of pulling the trigger.
He went down like a poleaxed steer and started whining.
The responding police officer took my info with a smile on his face the whole time.
The responding medics couldn't stop smiling, either. One of them even came over to show me the one tooth the POS didn't swallow.
Apparently, the POS was well known and everbody was thankful he finally got put in his place.
I received notification from the Jefferson County DA that no action would be taken against me, and by the way, did I wish to persue attempted robbery charges?
The POS apparently had a .25 auto in his sock at the time and even though I never saw it, it still qualified as a robbery attempt.
I declined charges, the guy's probation officer violated him and as far as I know, he's now reposing in the state pen, where he should have been all along.
I assume the state will spring for some teeth.
I could care less.
However, the small scrape on the slide of my 1911 has developed rust.
Gun AIDS, maybe?
Then tell the panhandlers to mind their own damned business and leave me alone. If I want to give them money, I'll throw it at them.
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