Posted on 05/30/2006 9:42:08 PM PDT by LdSentinal
As far as the powerful chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee is concerned, the controversial Senate bill on immigration reform is as dead as a duck.
Appearing Tuesday on "Lou Dobbs Tonight," Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., told Dobbs that he couldn’t imagine how the Senate bill "could ever be considered in the House of Representatives [when] the overwhelming majority of Republicans are against it.” This, he said "is amnesty. The more the senators deny it, Democrat and Republican, the more they deny it, the more the president denies it, it's amnesty. And the American people don't want it. I've never seen a disconnect between the will of the people and the actions of elected officials as we've seen in the Senate.
"And this is just a total disconnect, and as a Republican, our base is totally against it. But it goes beyond it; these are Reagan Republicans, and Democrats, independents, moderates -- across the board people are opposed. They want border security first.”
Commenting on Dobbs’ remark that Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., had described the Senate bill as the will of the Senate, King snapped: "The will of the Senate was not the will of the people. What really offends me about this is they say it has to be comprehensive, which means, on the one hand we have to protect the rights of the American people by having border security.
"On the other hand we have to protect the rights of illegal immigrants. So they are suggesting there's an equivalency between the rights of legal Americans and the rights of illegal immigrants, and you can't do both at the same time. So they are trying to balance the two, and when you do that, you're never going to get border security. After 20 years of promises, we don't have border security. There's no reason to think we're going to get it now unless we focus all our at attention on that.”
When Dobbs asked if it is possible four and a half years after 9/11 "for this White House to comprehend, for that Senate to comprehend, there are about 280 million Americans out here who deserve protection at their ports and at their borders and that the people are sick and tired. They've had a belly full of the nonsense. They want the borders secured. They want the ports secured, and really don't want to hear any more about free trade and impediments to commerce.”
Said King: "You're right, it's almost now, almost five years since Sept. 11. And border security is homeland security. Our world changed on Sept. 11. If there was ever the luxury of looking the other way on illegal immigration, it ended on Sept. 11. We have to secure the border, not just for economic and cultural and social reasons, we have to secure it to preserve our security, our homeland security.”
Since we cannot stay on topic as you weave and squirm all over the place, I think it is time to end the exchange as well.
I'll leave this with one more observation that relates to my original point.
Standing back from the issues and the two major political parties, I see similar ailments in both.
Although I have seen this happen before, it was far more limited in scope.
The extremes of both parties, having traditionally battled each other, have not turned their venom on their own people. Just as you have done.
it does not surprise me that you cannot see what you are doing. I have made this point dozens, if not hundreds of times on this forum with the same results each and every time. Total myopia and a sort of unwillingness to be introspect in any way.
This has become a sickness and both the Democrats and Republicans are infected in the same exact way.
Traditionally, the extremes are much more reserved and tend to act in a prodding but respectful way toward their respective parties, saving their ammo for the other side.
Things have certainly changed.
I think it is because the Republicans have not yet learned how to be the party in power, and the Democrats have yet to accept that they are in a minority role. As a result, they both have created a sort of personality disorder that has made the political landscape a total free for all and has damaged the credibility of both parties.
I'm just trying to point out the truth of the matter, and I could care less who is more conservative or more liberal as it matters not.
But with you, it is the only thing that matters and that is just plain nuts....I'm sorry to say.
Carry on!
We may get what we are working for so diligently, minority status again by 2008.
No one can accuse President Bush of caving. Having a strong will is admirable but as in the case of a mule, first your have to hit him in the head with a 2 x 4.
Small correction...
At least we can agree on that.
But with you,...
Once again the personal disparagement...you are really something...just can't help yourself I suppose.
We may get what we are working for so diligently, minority status again by 2008.
Well, if this happens it will not be the fault of the Conservative base that put the GOP over the top and into power in the first place. It will clearly be the fault of those who fractured the party by aligning sharply with the left. But like Rumsfeld said, If you can't fix it, make it worse and that will demand an answer.......weave and dodge indeed....
Therein lies our difference and the entire point of my conversation with you. As for my you use of "you", it came only after "you" used it to infer that I am somehow laking in conservative credentials as you claim to possess.
This is a common retort to win a argument by demeaning the opponent. It is very common on this site. I picked up on it early and called you on it. Just accept that you used the device and let it go. It does not add anything to the debate and the fact we are on differing sides on the very definition of conservatism should be obvious by now. The concept that there is some pure form of conservative ideology that must be forced on all members is new to the party politic and is at the root of what will eventually destroy the majority we currently enjoy.
It's like saying a Christian is not Christian enough to be a church member. A really stupid and damaging concept indeed, and one that has damaged more Churches in the past 2000 years then there are beans in Texas.
Apologies for typos......I am in a hurry and on my way out the door for a appointment....
Telling? Yes, I suppose it is...
It tells people that I support the republican party, with it's pimples and blemishes, because that is what a party supporter does.
If you cannot understand the concept, then you are a independent or confused.....whichever...
I find it amusing that party support is not tolerated by many conservatives. This is why the party is in trouble, unless and until it sheds it's detractors.
This process has occurred dozens of times in all political parties and will again. The left flank and the right flank are attempting a takeover of their respective parties that fails each and every time it is tried.
That's the meat of the matter, and why you are so irritated by my comments. You sense that you are not getting what you want or you are meeting too much resistance. You don't understand why.
You don't understand why because you don't understand what makes a political party work and what priorities they have, or you disagree with the order of those priorities.
The top priority is to win office, and how that is done is sometimes secondary as a matter of necessity and political reality.. Parties have few principles that cannot be compromised on, in the primary interest of winning elections. Those can be found in the platform and many are subject to change each and every cycle.
That is just the way it is. The way it has always been, and the way it will always be.
Because it must be so....
So yes, I am and have always been a Republican, as I will continue to be. Your comments about RINO's CINO's and my so called Conservative deficiencies in your eyes are irritating to me and many of the party faithful and will continue to draw my comments until the day a decision is made to either leave this site or the powers that be decide my contributions to the debate are worthless.
A Democrat is always the greater of the two evils.......Always! The primary is the time to dump or support any party politician. Never the general. In the general, you hold your nose and vote. Anything else will assure a Democrat win.
This is what parties do. If you don't agree then don't participate in a party. But don't try to assail the party because it failed to meet your expectations, because they never meet everyone's expectations. They are too big to be monogamous on any issue whatsoever.
My concern is that the baby will be thrown out with the bath water, and we are in real danger of doing exactly that. And like I said, it will not be my fault that it happens. ........if it happens... So I'm not conservative enough for you eh? So what! ......You will never make me think the way you do on any issue by the use of that kind of criticism. Never in a million years....
The only thing that stands in the way of a huge loss this year, is that the Democrats are even more screwed up than we are. Who ever gets their stuff together first will win in 08. That is the reality.
There you go again, Party over Principal....
Your comments about RINO's CINO's and my so called Conservative deficiencies in your eyes are irritating to me and many of the party faithful and will continue to draw my comments until the day a decision is made to either leave this site or the powers that be decide my contributions to the debate are worthless.
So opinion that differs from your exalted view is to be driven away. Not in this lifetime. Your attacks on my Conservative principals are as telling a they are abusive. No bot is going harass me from this site. As for your "contribution to the debate"...where and what debate have you contributed to with your off-topic attacks? Blind allegiance to party is what Hitler demanded and completely removes any principled discussion of the issues. To the extent that you don't like my comments about republicans that act like democrats (but because they label themselves Republican you blindly embrace), feel free to attack them on this site but try hard to come up with substantial argument based on principals rather than hide behind the rhetoric of "Party Loyalty"....
....open your myopic eyes.
...You are referring to my "principals before party affiliation" philosophy, I presume? After all this is a Conservative Site, not a Republican Site..unless I misread the manifesto.
More personal attacks. How do you feel about illegal aliens?...why are you so vitriolic with people who disagree with you?...
LOL.....
I can't tell you how many times I have seen a self proclaimed conservative poster degenerate into a flame tosser, when they get frustrated with logic.
Go away.......
Forget these polls. It's the elections that count.
Bilbray won in California for one reason only: illegal immigration. In his swearing-in ceremony in Congress the other day, he stated that that was the issue that got him elected.
I think we'll see more of that in Nov.
Go away? Whazzmatter...can''t address the issues? Poor baby. Go away? Not a chance. And look whose calling who a flame tosser. My my...
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