OBL posters making little men:
Some real debate would be nice...
Posted on 05/09/2006 12:40:29 PM PDT by NapkinUser
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Congressmen Tom Tancredo (R-CO) decried a recently-disclosed U.S. Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) practice of tipping off the Mexican military to the location of Minutemen volunteers. According to a story in this morning’s Inland Daily Bulletin, CBP notifies the Mexican government of when and where the Minutemen are planning to monitor the border and if violence is used by the Minutemen against illegal aliens. There has not been one verified instance of Minutemen volunteers using violence against illegal aliens.
“The Mexican military doesn’t exactly have a ‘good government’ reputation. The Border Patrol has documented more than two hundred incursions into the U.S by the Mexican military, and Texas sheriffs even apprehended Mexican government vehicles that were used to ferry drug runners across the border. By tipping off Mexico’s military to the Minutemen’s location, the U.S. government is asking for trouble,” said Tancredo.
“Heavily-armed military officials stationed only yards from civilians are at least intimidating. I can only surmise that the Border Patrol bureaucrats’ spying is meant to have a chilling effect on the Minutemen’s recruitment of more volunteers,” said Tancredo.
“The Minutemen haven’t been accused of breaking the law. Quite the contrary—they have gone out of their way to aid law enforcement and ensure the safety of our border. The U.S. government has no grounds upon which to stifle the Minutemen’s constitutional right to organize,” Tancredo concluded. “I want to know the legal basis for CBP informing a foreign government of the activities of private citizens who are obeying the law.”
You obviously agree with the President that the Minutemen are "vigilantes."
Thanks for the links to reports one and two. I was thinking that they might be revealing, because there appeared to be numerous, tacit assumptions in report three.
They are revealing. From report one, timeframe early 2005, excerpted for brevity; translation of website from http://www.appliedlanguage.com/free_translation.shtml
Actions of the Government of Mexico in the diplomatic scope
In January, the Secretariat of Outer Relations maintained to consultations on the subject with the Commissioner of Customs and Border Protection of the Department of Internal Security.
In February, the Secretariat of Outer Relations sent a Diplomatic Note to the government of the United States, in which it express preoccupation by the activities of the Minuteman project and the managements of the Department of State are asked for in order that the competent dependencies take forecasts to avoid that federal and state laws in damage of our conationals are violated. The subject was boarded also, in Washington D.C at level of Chancellors.
In March, the Ambassador of Mexico in the United States entrevistó with the Head of the Border Patrol of the Department of Internal Security, in order to ask for its intervention. Also, in occasion of the work visit that the Secretary of State of the United States made to Mexico, the position of Mexico on the part of the Secretary of Outer Relations was expressed him again.
In that same month, in the City of Mexico, during the meeting of work which they maintained civil employees of the Secretariats of Interior and Outer Relaciones of Mexico with diverse civil employees of the Department of Internal Security, including the Commissioner of Customs and Border Protection and the Head of the Border Patrol, the Mexican delegation reiterated the position of our government.
During the encounter which they maintained the Presidents of Mexico and the United States, in Waco, Texas, the President of the Republic expressed to his homologous American the preoccupation of his government by the subject and asked for the intervention of the competent authorities.
Answer of the Government of the United States
Civil employees of the Department of Internal Security have offered the securities of which that corporation does not support, in form some, the activities of monitoring made by individuals and he will not reduce violations to the law.
The diplomatic note presented/displayed the 10 of February, was answered by the Department of State assuring that the government of the United States will guard by the respect of the rights of any foreigner within his territory.
On the other hand, President George W. Bush declared in Waco, Texas, during the joint press conference with the agent chief executives of Mexico and Canada: “I am against watchmen in the United States of America. I am in favor of enforcing the law in a rational way. For that reason it is that an Border Patrol exists, and this one must enforce the law in the border”.
The 31 of March, the spokesman of the Border Patrol of the United States, Samuel Zamora, indicated that the Minuteman represents a distraction for the Border Patrol that it prevents him to exert his work. She added that the one that people take the law “in her own hands is what we are not going to tolerate”. She also commented that in case that haltings on the part of individuals appear, these last ones will have to face positions in his against.
Interinstitutional coordination
During the months of March and diverse April meetings between civil employees of Mexican institutions with presence in that zone of the border have taken place, with the intention of coordinating tendientes actions to prevent any incident from the Mexican side with the border, particularly arisen on the part of tie people to the organized crime or of gangs. The meetings also have had the objective to evaluate the measures to adopt before possible blockades of the border ports on the part of competing demonstrators to the activities of the volunteers of the Minuteman and to preserve the order and the tranquillity in the region.
The 1 of April was carried out a meeting with the participation of representatives of the different agencies from the order, as much of Mexico as of the United States, in which connections of communication between these agencies settled down, with the intention to count on opportune information on any incident that put in risk the public order and to avoid any trasgresión or violation to the law.
Coordination SRE-SEGOB
During the months of March and April several meetings of coordination between civil employees of both dependencies have been carried out, in order to detect any violation that was gotten to commit as a result of the activities of border monitoring of the members of the Minuteman against Mexican nationals.
With that objective one remembered reinforce the personnel of the National Institute of Migration and the Groups Water Beta Prieta and Naco, Sonant, to make the procedures more expeditious of repatriation. Also, instructions were turned to them to interview all the nationals which they were repatriated and to report to the National Institute of Migration and the Consulate in Douglas any complaint or denunciation of aggression, I mistreat or humiliation of which had been object at the moment and during its halting, specially in case that this halting had become by individuals.
Consular actions
By instructions of the Secretariat of Outer Relations, the consulates of Mexico in Arizona are kind to any possible violation of the rights of Mexican nationals.
The holders of the Consulates of Mexico in Arizona (Phoenix, Walnuts, Tucson, Douglas and Yuma) have made similar managements with authorities of Arizona (the Governor and State Solicitor), with federal authorities with jurisdiction in the state (Fiscal Federal and the ones in charge of the diverse sectors of the Border Patrol) and with municipal authorities.
The Secretariat of Outer Relations has established an agreement of collaboration with the Center of Human rights and Constitutional Right of the United States, in order to identify the legal actions that can be undertaken, with base to the own American legal frame, against the individuals that commit abuses that affect the Mexican migrantes. This study has been given to the legal consultants of the consulates.
Direct channels of communication between consular personnel of Mexico in Arizona have settled down and the Border Patrol, in order to guarantee the exchange of information, the consular access to the lengthy migrantes and the respect to their rights.
The Chief of a main directorate of Protection and Consular Subjects went commissioner to travel to the city of Douglas, Arizona, and to supervise of direct form the preventive workings and protection that our consulates make in that state. Also, the Consulate of Mexico in Douglas has been reinforced with additional personnel.
One has asked for the chiefs of the stations of the Border Patrol in Douglas and Naco, Arizona, that the consulate is informed into all and each one of the possible apprehensions of Mexican migrantes made by members of the Minuteman group and was requested that it is allowed consular personnel to interview all the prisoners before they are repatriated.
The General Consulate in Phoenix has reinforced its communication with the competent authorities of the State of Arizona.
Report Consular
In agreement with the information provided by the Consulate of Mexico in Douglas, Arizona, approximately one hundred volunteers of Minuteman in the meeting registered themselves that took place first of April in Tombstone. A great number also appeared, around 120, of printed and electronic mass media representatives.
The personnel of the Consulate in Douglas has maintained in constant communication with the liaisons and supervisors of the stations of the Border Patrol of Naco and Douglas, as well as with bailiffs of the office of the Sheriff de Cochise and the police of Naco and Douglas, that confirmed that until now it has not had reports some of apprehensions of undocumented people carried out by the members of Minuteman.
The watchmen who were bet throughout the border strip, to the east of the port of entrance of Naco, moved three miles to the east of Naco in the direction of Douglas. According to the consular reports, they appeared around 40 individuals that, making use of binoculars, they tried to detect to undocumented migrantes.
It is evident that, at any moment, the Border Patrol and other corporations have maintained a close control of the activities of the volunteers of Minuteman, which surely has contributed to the absence of incidents.
In the period between 5 and 11 of April incidents in the place were not reported where his the volunteers of Minuteman locate. Near them they remain some units of the Border Patrol and the Department of the Sheriff of the County of Cochise.
From the 6 of April, the number of the members of the Minuteman has diminished significantly. It is reported that in the contiguous area to the dividing line 15 and 23 volunteers of Minuteman and several “legal observers” of trained by American Civil Liberty Union have entered themselves between (ACLU), who monitorean to the watchmen to document any possible violation to the human rights of the undocumented people, and who carry a white t-shirt with a legend in red which he says “legal observers”.
The Border Patrol has showed publicly its annoyance because the volunteers of Minuteman activate control sensors and cause false alarms that mobilize without sense to the elements of the corporation.
From the 6 of April, also the presence of mass media representatives diminished very significantly.
Ban "All"
He/She is a troublemaker.
"At this point...I'll take their word for it."
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Me too.
From what I hear his kid is a computer geek. Prolly had him hack into the system.
So they can say emphatically that they didn't do anything, or that no way did anything like this happen, and isn't happening, with anybody anywhere?
Are they going to investigate the allegations?
"I've not read all 400-some-odd posts here, but I damned well hope my government would keep an eye on a bunch of men running around playing policeman, talking about building a "border fence," and the like."
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As other Freepers have noted, the Minutemen are essentially a neighborhood watch program. They use binoculars and cellphones to monitor illegal aliens crossing the border and then report them to the border patrol.
If you read the article you would know this is not about the Government watching the Minutemen, its about the Government reporting the locations and activities of the Minutement to the Mexican Goavernment for their use, whatever that may be. That is a whole different ball game. And its abominable. If you want to talk about stirring of Sh#t....that is excactly what our government is apparently doing.
I'll bet your teachers loved you.
I liked this part:
...several "legal observers" of trained by American Civil Liberty Union have entered themselves between (ACLU), who monitorean to the watchmen to document any possible violation to the human rights of the undocumented people, and who carry a white t-shirt with a legend in red which he says "legal observers".
And then there's this tidbit:
The Border Patrol has showed publicly its annoyance because the volunteers of Minuteman activate control sensors and cause false alarms that mobilize without sense to the elements of the corporation.
Screw Mexico!
The Arbusto administration has been disgusting on the borders. I'd have been livid were a Democrat failing his duty as Commander and Chief so miserably. I'm twice as angry when someone I voted for sells the nation down the river.
Try decaf, up your meds, have a glass of wine, heck--- get laid....but please, do something to get yourself calmed downed and back to reality.
Many of you have gone ballistic (again) without facts. Calling our President insulting names should at least be based on FACTS.
I am beginning to think that many of you are the ones that believe that the moon landing was done in a secret military set.
Ain't that the truth. We've been duped.
Ain't that the truth. We've been duped.
When it gets bad I just read my Bible a little to get things back in perspective.
They don't have the last word and a much,much better world is coming. We just have to do the best we can with this one and be prepared for the one that counts.
Some real debate would be nice...
��5{��������er we're looking at, it just doesn't sound good at all. And, it's not a low level decision. It goes to upper echelons of both CBP and DHS, with State involvement, and consultations with Secretary of State, and apparently our president, if this "report one" from the Mexican government's web site, is credible.
I'm actually hoping that there's something to contravene the impression all this creates. But, despite cautions from Jim R. about the matter, I've not seen anything yet. This thing was even covered on the local 10:00 news, a FOX affiliate. If there's something to put a stop to this out there, time's a-wasting.
Tancredo nails it! Folks, we are in dire straits. Perhaps our Minutemen and BP need to be a mite sneakier?
First word should be "Whatever." Not sure what happened there.
It's been posted...and ignored.
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