Posted on 04/08/2006 7:15:09 PM PDT by balrog666
Following up on my previous post about how creationists suffered a few setbacks, this news has also come to my attention: the creationist theme park Dinosaur Adventure Land, operated by the prominent evolution denier Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) and the Creation Science Evangelism ministry, has just been shuttered by the authorities. All of this arises from the church's building without a permit back in 2002. (Here's the ministry's own account of the situation.)
Links are at source.
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.sciam.com ...
Many cultures came up with the concept of a God or of gods. Only one came up with evolution. That does not mean that evolution is wrong though, it just means your premise is backwards, and if your logic was not fallacious then it would support creation over evolution. But, not to be mean, such logic is fallacious anyway.
Also I agree that Darwin was very bright, and that the evidence supports evolution. But I am not sure he was trying to replace Jesus.
The life and ministry of Jesus is very well documented, and there are a large number of people that have poured over the documents and examined them critically. I am among the millions that have made a point to become familiar with them.
How familiar are you with the rapes and murders that you mentioned Christians were doing? Were you there? Or do you have a lower standard of evidence for your assertions then you apply to me?
Thanks for the ping!
No, but to hold him up as an example of all crationism or I.D. is no more valid than us holding Henkel's false embryos up as an example of all evo's.
To have his entire operation shut down over a little permit fee simply because he is stupid and obstinate is rediculous.
Scripture directs Christians to pay taxes and duties to those whom they are due.
Amen? How about: praise Darwin? Whom revealed that Christians are not only wrong but evil?
Quiz: What does the discrediting followers of Christ as medieval dogmatics have to do with science?
Answer: Nothing, if your talking about real science and not a competing belief system.
"mistakes were made"
Won't dignify either statement. With your last post it has now become all too clear that it's not worth it. Keep dreaming -- and good luck.
Sorry but I'm not sure what your getting at. Could you be more specific.
To the contrary, what scripture says about evolution is that the truth of creation should be obvious to anybody and everybody and has been understood since the beginning. I get the impression from scripture that evolution is NOT a strong delusion but an incredibily weak delusion and that only a very rebellious people would fall for it.
Now having said that, I know that there are Christians out there who believe in both evolution and special creation of man. I don't see how they reconcile scripture with that, but in their minds they do. Here's the first half of that chapter...
2 Thes 1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
What's actually said about evolution....
2 Peter 3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
"everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation" is a pretty good description of uniformitarianism and the evo's devotion to naturalism.
verses 5 & 6 says that this view will cause them to forget that God created the heavens and the earth and destroyed it once by water. Which is the end result of that view, evo's deny special creation of man and animals and completely deny the flood.
Oh how can I live without you dignifying my lasts posts to you? Apparently I am simply not worth it. You are obviously better then me morally and intellectually. I who am the type to burn the innocent for heresy if given a chance.
Leave then, on the high moral ground oh great one. I'm so unworthy! I'm so unworthy!</sarcasm off>
Of course it is also possible that religion itself is a lie. But then where would we be without the guidance from someone that demands we believe his words without verification simply because he was taught them from someone that said the same to him.
Heck, I think most religions are lies. But not all of them fall into your description. For instance, Jesus came with a lot of verification.
It is? Other than in the Bible itself? What exactly are these documents you have personally poured over? And did you study them in their original language? Have they been authenticated as being from the time of Christ? Who wrote them?
I ask all of this because I have an interest in the comparative analysis of historical documents to biblical events. Such documentation would be of great interest to me.
Remember the Boston Tea Party.
“Scripture also says ‘Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.’ And right now, Caesar demands a building permit,” County Commission Chairman Mike Whitehead said.
Actually Jesus said:
Mat 22:21 And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (emphasis added)
There is a tradition in the United States that began with our Founding Fathers. It just so happens to line up with scripture. Standing against things that are wrong.
I don't have the guts Hovind has. He does go extreme on some positions. He has plenty of money to pay the permits and his taxes; but he refuses to just as Jesus refused to abide by the rulers in His day when they were robbing people by selling Lambs and Doves for sacrifice at exorbanent prices.
Jesus went extreme too:
John 2:14-15
14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business.
15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables.
I am close to what you describe. I think mankind probably evolved, and I think the evidence for it is pretty strong. I also think the evidence for short term creationism is pretty weak. But I don't "believe" in either thing. I believe in Christ.
As for reconciling evolution to scripture, there are many scriptures that I do not get, and some I may misunderstand. Perhaps the story of creation in Genesis was literal, and the short term creationists are right. I think it is probably allegorical though. Even the genealogy up to the time of Noah may have been so. Chuck Misler has pointed out there seems to be a message in the meanings of the names:
Adam (man) Seth (appointed) Enosh (mortal) Kenan (sorrow) Mahalalel (the blessed God) Jared (shall come down) Enoch (teaching) Methuselah (his death shall bring) Lamech (the despairing) Noah (rest/comfort).
As for 2 Peter 5, 6, I am starting to see your point more and more as I find irrational contempt for Christianity on these threads. To be fair though, I do not think all the Darwinists have such contempt. Its probably a little bit self selecting. The ones with contempt for Christians are the ones more likely to get into arguments with us.
I was referring to the concept of religion itself, not any religious doctrine in particular. And, as I requested in my post #93, I eagerly await the documentation that verifies Christ's ministry.
"He claims his business activities aren't taxable."
So I guess he is running a tax exempt "Dinosaur Church Park", not a Dinosaur Theme Park business.
It's disingenious to believe that Jesus could heal a severed ear instantly, or that God could give instant leper sores to Moses and then instantly heal them as well, but not believe that God has the power to create man a fully formed man from scratch or bring the dead back to life.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinquishable from magic" - Authur C. Clarke
Thank you for the interest in my personal studies. But I am hardly a giant of either biblical scholorship or related history. Although I do share your interest in them. You might try the works of Josephus (the guy who bought the tomb for Jesus to be buried).
I usualy only pour over some of the better translations of the Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Using both the NIV study bible, backed up with Zondervan's NIV Bible Commentary for historical perspective. It was the commentaries that made me aware of some of the collaboration of other historical evidence beyond the bible. I must admit that I tend to take the research presented at face value, and have not double checked the references.
And did you study them in their original language?
Hardly. Although I have picked up a few of hebrew and greek words and some historical and cultural contexts from those who are more learned.
Also the book of Daniel and the surrounding controversy about when it was written has been a fascinating discovery for me. Of particular interest to me is Daniel 9, 24-27. To understand what the heck it meant required quite a bit of research, and was the beginning of my belief that Christianity could actually be proved intellectually (although not scientifically).
Essentially, secularist scholars insist Daniel must be a fraud, written around 165 B.C. The reasoning is that the prophecies were too accurate to have been written before they happened (Daniel's time was about 530 B.C.). On the other side of the debate are the Christian scholars who maintain that it was indeed written by Daniel himself. They point to linguistic evidence, particularly that many words in Daniel were already so obsolete they were translated incorrectly in the Septuagint (the old testament translated into Greek translated in the third century B.C., long before the secularist's date for Daniel).
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