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Utah House kills evolution bill
Fort Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 28 February 2006 | JENNIFER DOBNER

Posted on 02/28/2006 4:05:45 AM PST by PatrickHenry

House lawmakers scuttled a bill that would have required public school students to be told that evolution is not empirically proven - the latest setback for critics of evolution.

The bill's sponsor, Republican state Sen. Chris Buttars, had said it was time to rein in teachers who were teaching that man descended from apes and rattling the faith of students. The Senate earlier passed the measure 16-12.

But the bill failed in the House on a 28-46 vote Monday. The bill would have required teachers to tell students that evolution is not a fact and the state doesn't endorse the theory.

Rep. Scott Wyatt, a Republican, said he feared passing the bill would force the state to then address hundreds of other scientific theories - "from Quantum physics to Freud" - in the same manner.

"I would leave you with two questions," Wyatt said. "If we decide to weigh in on this part, are we going to begin weighing in on all the others and are we the correct body to do that?"

Buttars said he didn't believe the defeat means that most House members think Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is correct.

"I don't believe that anybody in there really wants their kids to be taught that their great-grandfather was an ape," Buttars said.

The vote represents the latest loss for critics of evolution. In December, a federal judge barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes.

Also last year, a federal judge ordered the school system in suburban Atlanta's Cobb County to remove from biology textbooks stickers that called evolution a theory, not a fact.

Earlier this year, a rural California school district canceled an elective philosophy course on intelligent design and agreed never to promote the topic in class again.

But critics of evolution got a boost in Kansas in November when the state Board of Education adopted new science teaching standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of science groups.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: biofraud; crevolist; scienceeducation
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To: P-Marlowe
re: Spamming is where you fill up a thread with a 5000-10000 word article (that you post on every thread) that really adds nothing to the discussion, but is very irritating.)))

I hear you... but...The more they nag, the more they bore and get ignored. They even have tea parties where they prepare new lists that they plan to wave around and insist that we have some responsibility to take seriously. They hand down edicts like some rajah. Posers.

1,321 posted on 03/02/2006 3:54:32 PM PST by Mamzelle (GM=girley man)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
One may reasonably speculate that it was not necessary to bring a sample of each form of cattle, or each form of bird, in order to preserve the flesh represented therein.

Absolutely. After disembarking, we can assume they would interbreed and slowly evolve into the diversity of species we see today. :^)

1,322 posted on 03/02/2006 3:54:37 PM PST by blowfish
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To: P-Marlowe
...as if a modification is sexual behavior after 89 generations of mutant fly sex is an example of "speciation".

If it prevents interbreeding, it is.

1,323 posted on 03/02/2006 3:54:39 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Ask any anthropologist and he will probably tell you that the forms human life has taken thoughout the generations have been exceedingly diverse, enough that human bones have been confused with those of primates.

I am an anthropologist (and archaeologist) and human bones are one of my specialties.

Fester, give up on the global flood. You just can't make the evidence stretch into that direction. You can only pretzel things so far. Virtually everyone else gave up on the global flood long ago.

1,324 posted on 03/02/2006 3:57:32 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: P-Marlowe

You were the one who wanted the "rebuttal".

I didn't say that. I just observed that your 'spam' image response was an interesting rebuttal after over a day to think about it.

1,325 posted on 03/02/2006 3:57:46 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
I should add that flood activity could easily transport the remains of these creatures to places which today are inhabitable.

So if we see fossils above 10000 feet, we can assume there's over 2 miles of water required to transport them. Where did the water go? Or are you going to contend that the Inyo Mountains we created in the last 6000 years?

1,326 posted on 03/02/2006 3:58:31 PM PST by blowfish
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To: Virginia-American

It didn't. Yet this was given as a scientific example of observed natural evolutionary speciation.


1,327 posted on 03/02/2006 4:02:50 PM PST by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: P-Marlowe
From the abstract you posted:

. Positive assortative mating was found in the treatment which had mated in the light and had been subject to strong selection against hybridization.

What does this mean?

1,328 posted on 03/02/2006 4:07:09 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: blowfish
When biological entities are allowed to carry on as designed they manifest a great amount of diversity in a fairly short period of time. But there seem always to be limits. For example, with the chimp and human, there seems always to be something to limit any transition from one to the other; a feature however small, that causes them always to be rendered distinct.

Now, it would not suprise me in the least that in history there would be one first chimp, just like there was one first human. And in that chimp would be the genetic material to bring about as wide a variety of chimps as we have, for example, varieties of dogs.

So, evolution seems to do a good job when it comes to categorizing the critters. But I think it underestimates the capacity for genetic expression to be diverse in a short period of time on the one hand, but also exceedingly limited in a general way.

Diversity within limits is a hallmark of design. Without it a product would not only be indistinguishable but also non-functional.

1,329 posted on 03/02/2006 4:10:43 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Okay, so where's your evidence?


1,330 posted on 03/02/2006 4:12:46 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: Virginia-American
It probably means that these mutant flies were no longer sexually attractive to each other. Mutants tend to have that problem when looking for love.

It didn't mean they were different species. They were still flies. They didn't become mosquitos. They didn't become bees.

1,331 posted on 03/02/2006 4:13:04 PM PST by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: P-Marlowe

It didn't mean they were different species. They were still flies. They didn't become mosquitos. They didn't become bees.

Is there a creationist tree of life, or list or table, etc., that defines all the 'kinds' that cannot ever become other kinds?

1,332 posted on 03/02/2006 4:15:36 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: ml1954

The implication that all flies are the same is rather interesting, as well.


1,333 posted on 03/02/2006 4:16:44 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: PatrickHenry
I believe in the literal Iliad.

LOL. You down with OPP's logic?

How 'bout a literal Odyssey? Cyclops, sirens and such.

1,334 posted on 03/02/2006 4:17:16 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: Junior
I'm sure that "anything" will turnip any time now.

What is at the root of your problem?

1,335 posted on 03/02/2006 4:18:19 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: P-Marlowe
It didn't mean they were different species

OK, they can't interbred, but they're the same species?

Are you actually serious?! Then how do you define species?

1,336 posted on 03/02/2006 4:19:50 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: ToryHeartland
I am going to start soliciting funds for promoting Olympian Design; we hold that Homeric verse is inerrant and sufficient to explain all natural phenomena, though in order to skate around your awkward 1st amendment stuff, we stress that OD is not re-branded religious creationism on the grounds that we do not specify which Titan or Olympian actually made everything.

Sounds great. Now lets start demanding it taught in public schools.

1,337 posted on 03/02/2006 4:20:45 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: ToryHeartland
[the gods are the common inheritance of us all.] Wrong--we of the newly-formed OD (Olympian Design) Movement hereby grant unto ourselves sole and exclusive rights to speak on behalf of the Graeco-Roman pantheon.

Perhaps. But I'm no fool. I will need to see a sign. What do the entrails say?

1,338 posted on 03/02/2006 4:21:08 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks, but now I gotta feed them before they turn on me.

Grammatically, that should be "turn me on," you pervert.

1,339 posted on 03/02/2006 4:22:34 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

The implication that all flies are the same is rather interesting, as well.

It's also interesting that the distinguishing unique characteristics of 'flyness' are not defined either.

1,340 posted on 03/02/2006 4:23:11 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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