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Utah House kills evolution bill
Fort Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 28 February 2006 | JENNIFER DOBNER

Posted on 02/28/2006 4:05:45 AM PST by PatrickHenry

House lawmakers scuttled a bill that would have required public school students to be told that evolution is not empirically proven - the latest setback for critics of evolution.

The bill's sponsor, Republican state Sen. Chris Buttars, had said it was time to rein in teachers who were teaching that man descended from apes and rattling the faith of students. The Senate earlier passed the measure 16-12.

But the bill failed in the House on a 28-46 vote Monday. The bill would have required teachers to tell students that evolution is not a fact and the state doesn't endorse the theory.

Rep. Scott Wyatt, a Republican, said he feared passing the bill would force the state to then address hundreds of other scientific theories - "from Quantum physics to Freud" - in the same manner.

"I would leave you with two questions," Wyatt said. "If we decide to weigh in on this part, are we going to begin weighing in on all the others and are we the correct body to do that?"

Buttars said he didn't believe the defeat means that most House members think Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is correct.

"I don't believe that anybody in there really wants their kids to be taught that their great-grandfather was an ape," Buttars said.

The vote represents the latest loss for critics of evolution. In December, a federal judge barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes.

Also last year, a federal judge ordered the school system in suburban Atlanta's Cobb County to remove from biology textbooks stickers that called evolution a theory, not a fact.

Earlier this year, a rural California school district canceled an elective philosophy course on intelligent design and agreed never to promote the topic in class again.

But critics of evolution got a boost in Kansas in November when the state Board of Education adopted new science teaching standards that treat evolution as a flawed theory, defying the view of science groups.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: biofraud; crevolist; scienceeducation
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To: js1138
I used to be accused of being too middle of the road, so I guess that makes me median rather than mean.

You need to break out of the mode you're in.

1,061 posted on 03/01/2006 3:12:44 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: From many - one.; js1138

Answered my own question. Here:

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

Neat stuff.

Ya'd think the CR/IDs would be all over this.


1,062 posted on 03/01/2006 3:16:55 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.
Do I remember correctly that they did trace one male lineage back to a common ancestor living at the time of Moses? Jews named Cohen (or variants)?

I believe there is a population of Jews who are descended from a common ancestor in historical times. I don't know the details, but it would not be surprising in a small population that restricts marriage outside the religion.

1,063 posted on 03/01/2006 3:19:32 PM PST by js1138
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To: From many - one.
Ya'd think the CR/IDs would be all over this.

The possibility that members of a small religious sect which prohibits marriage outside the sect would all be related is not particularly interesting.

The claim that going back another thousand years would make all human males share descent from a single male -- that would be interesting if the data supported it.

1,064 posted on 03/01/2006 3:26:18 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138

Pondering...


Maybe they're not all over it because it sorta dis-proves their thesis.

A Moses type person was quite possible at around the presumed date.

If one accepts that, though, all the other Y chromosome variants in other folk argues against Noah being the originator of modern Y.

So, you get either Moses or Noah, but not both.

I'm overdue for a caffeine fix, so this may be way off.


1,065 posted on 03/01/2006 3:33:52 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.

The same kind of evidence that supports the common descent of the Kohens fails to support all men having a common ancestor at the time of Noah. It's a case where reasonable speculation is supported by evidence and silly speculation is not supported.


1,066 posted on 03/01/2006 3:40:59 PM PST by js1138
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To: VadeRetro; js1138
You need to break out of the mode you're in.

I got a good one today.

The claim that going back another thousand years would make all human males share descent from a single male -- that would be interesting if the data supported it?

I got a good one today: Check your cache before you cash your check on that data.;) LOL!

1,067 posted on 03/01/2006 3:42:01 PM PST by phantomworker (It doesn’t matter what other people think or feel or say. “You are the only person who defines you.")
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To: phantomworker
That's OK. I'll be stealing the one with the physicist, the biologist, and the mathematician.
1,068 posted on 03/01/2006 3:50:43 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

You know, I thought I got that one, but I didn't. How does the mathematician say the house is empty? Is it a negative number or something or I am overthinking it? LOL

(I did make that one up about the cache btw.)


1,069 posted on 03/01/2006 3:54:36 PM PST by phantomworker (It doesn’t matter what other people think or feel or say. “You are the only person who defines you.")
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To: phantomworker
2 minus 3 = -1, yes.
1,070 posted on 03/01/2006 3:55:58 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Mamzelle
Only the peer-reviewed are allowed that name.

My godfather's name is Noah, and he was never peer reviewed.

Of course, he fled the country decades ago under an assumed name...

1,071 posted on 03/01/2006 3:58:00 PM PST by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: VadeRetro

OK! Now I get it! Thanks! LOLOL!!


1,072 posted on 03/01/2006 3:58:37 PM PST by phantomworker (It doesn’t matter what other people think or feel or say. “You are the only person who defines you.")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Making a Noah Count posting.


1,073 posted on 03/01/2006 6:15:11 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: PatrickHenry

What good is sitting alone in your room?
Come hear the music play.
Life is a Cabaret, old chum,
Come to the Cabaret.

Put down the knitting,
The book and the broom.
Time for a holiday.
Life is Cabaret, old chum,
Come to the Cabaret.

Come taste the wine,
Come hear the band.
Come blow your horn,
Start celebrating;
Right this way,
Your table's waiting

No use permitting
soem prophet of doom
To wipe every smile away.
Come hear the music play.
Life is a Cabaret, old chum,
Come to the Cabaret!

I used to have a girlfriend
known as Elsie
With whom I shared
Four sordid rooms in Chelsea

She wasn't what you'd call
A blushing flower...
As a matter of fact
She rented by the hour.

The day she died the neighbors
came to snicker:
"Well, thats what comes
from to much pills and liquor."

But when I saw her laid out like a Queen
She was the happiest...corpse...
I'd ever seen.

I think of Elsie to this very day.
I'd remember how'd she turn to me and say:
"What good is sitting alone in your room?
Come hear the music play.
Life is a Cabaret, old chum,
Come to the Cabaret."

And as for me,
I made up my mind back in Chelsea,
When I go, I'm going like Elsie.

Start by admitting
From cradle to tomb
Isn't that long a stay.
Life is a Cabaret, old chum,
Only a Cabaret, old chum,
And I love a Cabaret!


1,074 posted on 03/01/2006 6:19:37 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: VadeRetro

The only things in the middle of the road in Texas are white stripes and dead skunks.


1,075 posted on 03/01/2006 6:28:19 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic; Elsie
I ... feel a -thon coming on,
It's a victorious, happy and glorious -thon,
And soon ... all my troubles will be gone,
'Cause I feel a -thon coming on.

-- Apologies to Dorothy Fields

1,076 posted on 03/01/2006 6:42:29 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Junior
. . . the physical evidence does not back you up.

Sure it does. The physical evidence is spread throughout the earth's surface, and it is a stark recrod of death, possibly sudden death in many cases. It also reflects conditions, albeit on a wider scale, where we have observed catastrophic events in our own day.

1,077 posted on 03/01/2006 6:45:34 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: wyattearp

I tend to consider the generations denoted in the biblical texts less as a point-for-point detailed rendition of each and every generation than as benchmark generations. Again, the point is that the biblical texts accurately reflect history, only not in every detail. Nor should we expect as much since that is not their purpose. Hence I leave flexible the exact amount of time since the heavens and the earth were created, as well as the amojt of time that transpired from the flood until the account of the Tower of Babel. Nevertheless I am sure I would be regarded as a young earth creationist.


1,078 posted on 03/01/2006 6:51:01 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
No it doesn't. How are raindrop spatters and footprints fossilized under your scenario? How do desert and wet climes alternate in the fossil record? How do delicate organic features survive to be fossilized in the violence of the sudden deluge? How do the fossils just happen to sort themselves out in the way we see in the fossil record?

In the end, the deluge cannot explain these things, no matter how much you wish it to.

1,079 posted on 03/01/2006 6:56:00 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: balrog666; phantomworker; VadeRetro; editor-surveyor
I wrote: "Speaking of concrete, which one of our YEC's told us last week that a sort of calcified concrete mixture shot up from below creating all the fossils at once at the time of God's earthicide?"

balrog and phantomworker had missed that gem and I promised to dredge it up. Well, I did. The reason I'm bringing this up and pinging esteemed YEC flood hydrologist editor-surveyor is merely so he can shed light on this particular thread which has delved into the miraculous world of the biblical genocidal flood.

Enjoy!
1,080 posted on 03/01/2006 7:28:26 PM PST by whattajoke
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