Federalist Patriot bashes Abe Linclon

2/17/06 | Mobile Vulgus

[Mobile Vulgus]

I don't know how many of you get the Federalist Patriot report via email, but it is a great source of conservative news and opinion that all of you should get.

You can find their site at:

http://patriotpost.us/

Anyway, even though I support them, they sent out an email today that bashed Abe Lincoln fiercely. I was so moved to annoyance by their biased and ill thought out email that I had to write them and say how disappointed I was.

You can go to their site and see the anti-Lincoln screed that they put out to know exactly what I am replying to if you desire to do so.

Now, I know some of you freepers are primo confederate apologists so I thought this would stir debate on freerepublic!!

Now, let the fur fly as we KNOW it must...

[Leatherneck_MT]

Wayne

It's not just a matter of agreeing with you, it's a matter of you being 100% correct. Whether I like it or not, Secession is not prohibited by the Constutition, it does not give the power to the Federal Government to stop it, so by definition it gives the power to the states and to the people of the individual states to decide that issue.

Keep up the good fight and remember..

Never try to teach a pig to sing

It wastes your time and annoys the pig :)

[Leatherneck_MT]

By the way, they can't point to something in the Constitution that doesn't exist. But what they do try to do is impress you and everyone else with the massive volume of text that they can spew out.

It makes no difference. They are just as wrong with 3 million words as they were with 10.

[Kokojmudd]

Don't know what the article said. I like Lincoln but he was the father of the big federal government IMHO.

[Kokojmudd]

Ok, just read it. I don't see any problem with it. Never heard of the Federalist Patriot before. I will email them in support of their piece. Thanks for the tip.

[MamaTexan]

Lincoln saved the south from the utter stupidity of creating a failed totalitarian thuggocracy.

Lincoln breached the contract of the Constitution and destroyed the Republic trying to preserve the union.

[WayneS]

Thanks.

I just noticed you're in Montana. I've been considering a move to somewhere like Montana since the ridiculous rate of development here in Virginia is causing undesirables (read:Liberals) to infiltrate my once rural County.

The latest ridiculous behavior was last year when some guy moved here from Alexandria or southern Maryland or some such "big-city" place then promptly tried to get our Board of Supervisors to outlaw shooting on most of the private property in the County because his neighbor had a shooting range which annoyed him and "endangered his family".

It never ceases to amaze me that certain people will try to forcibly impose their own beliefs on others, while claiming they are in favor of freedom.

[WayneS]

And how do we know exactly what Mr. Lincoln was referring to?

I've never actually spoken to Abraham Lincoln, but since it appears you have, maybe you can enlighten us as to the "shrugging" mechanism(s) we might be permitted to use, provided that was one of the subjects you discussed in your conversation.

[antisocial]

"White Trash", huh? You Sir, deserve a good thrashing. I would love to be the one to give it to you.

I want sloppy seconds!

Dixie Bump!

[Leatherneck_MT]

Montana is pretty remote still. 860,000 people or less last census.

and we can shoot in our own back yards if we're out in the country lol.

I'm a Georgia boy tho so the cold kills me during the winter. I'll be finding a place further South once I'm able to move.

[billbears]

So, what then is so sacred about the American union? Why can't a substantial segment of the citizenry separate from the country and go its own way? These are important questions when we consider that Lincoln supported secession on flimsier grounds than does the Declaration of Independence. It requires "a long train of abuses and usurpations," which reduce a government to "absolute despotism," before secession is justified.

These are the words of your fellow worshipper Machan. Even he accepts that the future tyrant 16th president supported secession.

[MamaTexan]

You show the intention of the union being perpetual, but not where all States are forced to remain in it.

[WayneS]

Yeah, that godawful cold is the only thing keeping me from just taking up stakes right now and heading for Wyoming, Montana or one of the Dakotas.

I stayed in northern Russia for 2-1/2 weeks 3 winters ago and the temperature never got above zero degrees Farenheit the entire time I was there. It was pretty harsh.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"You show the intention of the union being perpetual, but not where all States are forced to remain in it."

Huh?

Did the States have their fingers crossed when they signed documents creating a binding, perpetual union?

[Luis Gonzalez]

You want to discuss contracts?

The people of the United States paid $5 million in 1821 to purchase Florida because Georgia wanted to control the Seminole Indians.

Forty years later they BOTH want to secede without concern about the fact that it would remain to the people of a diminished nation to foot the bill?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"When the States ratified the Constitution of 1787, they pledged that they would accept the results of elections conducted according to its rules. In violation of this pledge, the Southern States seceded because they did not like the outcome of the election of 1860. Thus secession is the interruption of the constitutional operation of republican government, substituting the rule of the minority for that of the majority."

The Confederacy violated the Constitution.

[MamaTexan]

He also stated at one point during our exchange that until the 14th Amendment was adopted, the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal government, not the States. Now I know from the way it is written that the 1st Amendment applies only to the Federal government ("Congress shall make no law..."), but that was the first time I had ever seen someone argue that Amendments 2-10 didn't apply to the State governments, especially since the 6th and 10th Amendments specifically mention the States.

Actually, if you go by original intent, the Federal BOR was for the federal enclave. That's why all the States have their own Constitutions. It was considered a separation of powers.

Here's a great Constitutional resource The Founders Constitution

In the English common law upon which our Constitution was based, juries in a trial judged the law the actions and the character of an accused criminal.

A 'peer' as it was originally used was someone who knew the accused, and therefore could judge his actions and whether or not they were justifiable.

By placing the 6th Amendment in the Constitution, the Founders ensured the judgment of the crime took place in the same area in which it was committed, and the accused would have access to his 'peers' and defensive witnesses.

The usage of the word 'State' in the 10th Amendment was to make very clear the ONLY power the federal government had was what was written in the legal contract known as the Constitution.

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The Adoption of the 14th Amendment changed our form of government from a federal/restricted national one to a wholly NATIONAL one. So many courts (including the Supreme Court) have said.

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I interpret the Constitution as it is written, not as I would personally like it to be.

As do I.

MANY FReepers think the Constitution is like Burger King in that they can 'have it their way".

The Constitution is a legal document. Remove a single, tiny part, and the entire contract is worthless.

[tkathy]

The newconfederates need to forget and forgive the past, and pay some attention to the present.

[MamaTexan]

Did the States have their fingers crossed when they signed documents creating a binding, perpetual union?

A cute but ineffectual remark.

The Constitution was a voluntary contract with NO provision for future coercion.

By law, any contract voluntarily entered can also be voluntarily exited upon legal notice.

That's what this means:

Amendment X
Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

[MamaTexan]

The people of the United States paid $5 million in 1821 to purchase Florida because Georgia wanted to control the Seminole Indians.
Forty years later they BOTH want to secede without concern about the fact that it would remain to the people of a diminished nation to foot the bill?

Did Georgia didn't FORCE the federal government to make the purchase?

No?

Then tough noogies to the federal government for speculating Georgia and Florida would want to remain in the union after its Unconstitutional actions.

[Dawgreg]

Hello stan......and why did Lincoln think secession was RIGHT in 1848 and NOT 1861? I still maintain that if Lincoln had vacated Ft. Sumpter, went to court with the question of secession and at the least had debate with the South, that terrible war could have been avoided and at some point slavery would have died a natural death. Sure the slaves were freed, but ONLY to the point of coming and going as they pleased but in my opinion weren't any better off. The reconstruction failure and by 1877 the government pulling out then Jim Crow for the next hundred years. The hyprocracy of the North still burns in my mind. Could it have been settled without a war? I think it could have.