Married, ex-Episcopalian ordained a Catholic priest in California

modbee ^ | 2-10-06

[LouAvul]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (AP) - A former Episcopalian priest who converted to Catholicism became the first married cleric ordained in the Diocese of San Bernardino under an unusual provision.

As his wife and two children looked on at Our Lady of the Rosary Cathedral, Gregory Elder was ordained into the Roman Catholic clergy Friday through a rarely invoked exemption to Canon Law called the Pastoral Provision.

"I'm humbled, it's an honor, and only God could have made this happen," Elder told The Associated Press. "I didn't leave the Episcopal Church because I was mad at them. I wanted to join the church of history. I love my Episcopal friends."

Since 1983, about 80 former Episcopal priests in the United States have been ordained as Catholic priests through the provision, said the Rev. William Stetson, director of the Catholic Information Center in Washington, D.C.

About 43,400 Catholic priests reside in the United States, according to the center.

"The provision is very unusual, because priests are asked to be celibate, are asked not the marry. This is definitely the exception to the rule, because with the Pastoral Provision, you get to stay married," said the Rev. Paul Granillo, spokesman for the San Bernardino diocese.

Approved by the late Pope John Paul II, the provision requires eligible Episcopalian candidates to convert to Catholicism and find a bishop to sponsor them.

[NYer]

Besides, most of the posters seem to agree that mandatory celibacy has outlived its usefulness.

Now here you go contradicting my statement that most catholics are not familiar with the scriptural perspective on priestly celibacy. You are suggesting that the opinion of "the posters" outweighs that of our Lord. Who are these posters? How many of them are actually Catholic? You can easily rope in the Evangelicals who don't have priests serving in their mega churches.

Sinkie, you made a decision at a certain point in your life to abandon the vow of celibacy for that of marriage. You should rejoice rather than lament that decision, and I'm sure your wife would agree with me.

[Kolokotronis]

"My pastor, God bless this holy man, is a celibate Maronite priest who gives his all to the parish and community at large. He has sacrificed a wife and children to care for us. And care, he does, with heart and soul, enflamed with love for our Lord."

And in the old country, virtually all non hierarch and non monastic priests are married men with families, NYer. The fact that here in the States Maronite priests are not married is due to the orders of the greater Latin Church here in the US. I've said it before, celibates belong in monasteries, not in parishes.

[NYer]

Slightly ironic, considering that St. Peter...the FOUNDER of the Catholic Church and Christs self declared "rock", was himself a married man who had children. Most of the apostles were married as well.

You're right! Peter was married! He took a vow of marriage before being called into service by Jesus Christ. And ... he maintained that vow until his excrutiating death in the Forum Romanum. He never waivered. This is why the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches allow married men to enter the priesthood. Their first vow is to their wife and family; the second one is to the Church. Should the wife die, the priest never remarries (at least in the Eastern Catholic Churches).

As to the other disciples, Paul was celibate, as we know from 1 Corinthians 7:32-35 . Our Lord was also celibate and encouraged it as we know from Matthew 19:10-12

Am I missing something here? Which of the other disciples were married?

[sinkspur]

You are suggesting that the opinion of "the posters" outweighs that of our Lord.

Jesus NEVER demanded that his apostles be celibate. "Let him accept it who can." In the first centuries of the Church, priests and bishops weren't. And, as you yourself have illustrated, married men are ordained in the Eastern Church.

The ONLY justification the Church can use for continuing mandatory celibacy in the Latin Rite is that, well, priests have always been celibate.

That's why men are waiting and going into the permanent diaconate rather than the priesthood.

You and others insist on making this about me, though I've never referred to my own situation. I will never be a priest, or allowed to be a deacon. So it's not about me. And I don't have any ill feelings about that at all.

It's about the future of my Church. Catholic men don't want to go into the priesthood. Instead of finding out why and putting a plan in place to address the situation, all we get out of the bishops and Rome are vocation days and "well, let's pray."

I'm not working in RCIA twice a week so, ten years from now, I can attend a communion service conducted by a deacon who can barely speak English and knows less theology than I do.

[NYer]

As a Protestant, I have always thought required celibacy for priests to be a strange and unnatural practice.

Why? With the exception of Peter who was married before he was chosen, all of the disciples were celibate, including our Lord Jesus Christ. Are you saying that Jesus' celibacy was 'unnatural'?

Look at the Jewish practice: Rabbis are not celibate: indeed, they are encouraged to have large families, which are a point of pride for their congregations.

Rabbis are not priests, nor do they adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Jesus was a rabbi and He was not married.

The Catholic church is short of priests. A reasonable, practical, and humane solution would be to keep priestly celibacy for those who desire it

The Eastern Catholic Churches allow for a married priesthood. It is not the panacea you propose. See the comments made by Maronite Patriarch above in an earlier post.

[NYer]

I predict that, sooner or later, American Catholics, who are the financial backbone of the Church at large, will tire of supporting parishes with no resident priest.

So, according to you, inviting back those who broke their vows is the solution? Get over it already! First you chose to be a priest and entered the diaconate. Then you met a woman, fell in love, gave up your vows and married her. Celibrate that love!

Why do you harbor such resentment against an institution that simply asked if you were ready to make a vow and you said 'yes' but then changed your mind. The seminary is a time of discernment. Obviously, that discernment was towards marriage. Why can't you simply drop to your knees in gratitude to our Lord for the beautiful wife He gave you and accept that this is your calling in life?

[Arthalion]

Presumably all of them. Jewish tradition at the time was that children were engaged at 12-15 years, and were married shortly afterward. The celibacy of both Jesus and Paul is dwelled upon in the Bible specifically because it is what set them apart from other men. There's nothing to indicate that any of the rest were single.

But if you wish to dwell on the example of Paul, I cannot help but cite his own words in 1 Timothy. The book is obviously well read by the leadership of the church as 1 Timothy 2 is commonly cited as the reason why women cannot become priests. It is slightly ironic, therefore, that the 1 Timothy 3 contains this passage:

1 Timothy, Chapter 3 - 1 This saying is trustworthy: 2 whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God?

One cannot become a Bishop without also being a priest. How are we to reconcile this?

[right-wingin_It]

Where's the so-called principles of the Catholic Church? This is an outrage. Either let priests be married or don't, but don't play games here with Gods' word.

While I am cautious about too many protestant ministers converting while simultaneously choosing to become Catholic priests, the policies of the Church are fully in line with what Paul preaches in the Bible. You can be married or celibate, but celibate is prefered. I don't see the conflict.

What I am somewhat concerned about though, is how one can go from preaching upon one theoretical foundation and instantly change to preach upon a new conflicting one??...It's like imagining how instantaneously fast can a liberal change to a conservative (or vice versa) with out leaving any room for moderate views. What percentage of these Priest-converts would uphold what percentage of Catholic teachings?? As a layperson, all I can do is trust that the Bishop closely follows each case, and at the end of the day the prayers are made and the right people are approved. It's possible this is program is doing fine...that is to say, I didn't read anyting to indicate the program was a severe problem. And of course people can drastically change. Paul was once Saul for one prime example.

[sinkspur]

So, according to you, inviting back those who broke their vows is the solution?

That's not a bad idea, actually. Married people occasionally break their marital vows yet, within the context of marriage, they take each other back, reconcile, and move on. It's a pity that the Church won't offer that same kind of reconciliation to priests who have left.

Actually, the Church does offer it, in certain circumstances. I'm aware of at least five priests who left in the 70s and 80s, married, had kids, divorced, and are now back in the priesthood. The difference between them and me is that they never sought laicization and decided to marry while still priests, outside the Church.

So, the Church will take them back, with open arms, but will not take back anyone who did the right thing and got laicized so they could sacramentalize their marriages.

We've witnessed, over the last 30 years, Roman Catholic bishops doing whatever it took to keep alcoholics, misogynists, and child molesters in the priesthood. Just as long as they had nothing to do with a woman, they could dry out or get treatment, and be reassigned. But, if a priest leaves the priesthood, gets married, and stays married, he is anathema for as long as that woman is around. If he dumps her, as long as he didn't confect a sacramental marriage, he's welcomed back into the priesthood. And forget about ordaining older married men with stable marriages. Of course, there's always the permanent diaconate, which happens to be adding nearly 800 ordained men to the service of the Church every year, twice the number of priests who are ordained.

So, you'll forgive me if I look at the current poor mouthing by the hierarchy about not having enough priests with a somewhat jaundiced eye.

[msnimje]

The priest having a wife is just a cross he will have to bear.

Does your wife know you feel this way?

[Salvation]

BTTT!

[Salvation]

There's no outrage. Just a lot of discussion.

Pope Defends Clergy Celibacy Order
Has the Time Come to Consider Making Celibacy Truly Optional In the Western Church?
Catholic Scandals: A Crisis for Celibacy?
Celibacy of the priesthood is a church strength, not a liability
Celibacy s history of power and money

Pope: Priests Must Stay Celibate
Giving Thanks for the Good Shepherds ( A Defense of Priestly Celibacy)
Don't end celibacy for priests
The celibate superhero
Priestly Celibacy And Its Roots In Christ

How to Refute Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy
Priestly Celibacy Reflects Who - and Whose - We Are[Father George W.Rutler]
Celibacy
Tracing the Glorious Origins of Celibacy
God’s call to celibacy for the sake of His Kingdom - by Card. George

Vatican Says Celibacy Rule Nonnegotiable
Bishop Attacks Move to End Celibacy
A response to Fr. Joseph Wilson's defense of mandatory celibacy
The gift of Priestly celibacy as a sign of the charity of Christ, by Mother Teresa of Calcutta
Archbishop Dolan:"We Need to Be Renewing Our Pledge to Celibacy, Not Questioning It"

Celibacy is gift cherished by church
Celibacy Will Save the Priesthood
Celibacy Defended by EWTN's Fr. Levis
Call To Action: Dump Celibacy
The (Catholic) Church Has Always Prospered When Celibacy Is Honored

John Paul II Hails "Inestimable Value" of Priestly Celibacy
For Priests, Celibacy Is Not the Problem
Fr. Shannon Collins Discusses Celibacy
5 Arguments Against (Catholic) Priestly Celibacy and How to Refute Them
Why A Married Priesthood Won't Remedy the Priest Shortage

New Vatican Document on Homosexuality and the Priesthood Coming Before Fall 2005
Catholic priests demand the right to marry
Catholic priests urge Church to reconsider celibacy rules
Alternative Priests´ Council Hits Back on Mandatory Celibacy
Married Priests? The English Experience

Saying Yes to God: a Look into Vocations
New Vatican Document to Eliminate 1961 Papal Ban on Ordaining Homosexuals
Saying Yes to God: a Look into Vocations
Is it time to ordain married men to the Catholic priesthood?
40% of Scots priests want end to celibacy

A small, sturdy band of 'John Paul priests'(JPII legacy of conservative priests)
Yes, Gay Men Should Be Ordained
Cardinal says Priests will marry
Fathers, Husbands and Rebels: Married Priests
An Unneeded Headache (Vatican document on [NOT] admitting homosexual to the priesthood)

Vatican Prepares Draft Directives Against Admitting Gays as Priests
From Anglican to married Catholic priest
Spain gets first married priest
Spain (R) Catholic Church ordains first married priest
The Catholic Church - East-West Difference Over Priestly Celibacy

ROMAN CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF SCRANTON TO RECEIVE FIRST ECUSA PRIEST
Defending Chastity in the Priesthood
Ordination of married men is raised at Vatican synod
Patriarch of Venice deemphasizes ordination of married men to the priesthood
Cardinal Pell: Ending Celibacy Rule Would Be a Blunder

Priest shortage stems from crisis of faith, ignorance of the infinite, not celibacy, say Bishops [at Synod]
Synod Affirms Priestly Celibacy
Married Priests Aren’t the Answer (a seminarian states his view)
5 Arguments Against Priestly Celibacy and How to Refute Them
(Catholic) Church makes a clear distinction between chastity and celibacy, says Priest

Why Not Married Priests? The Case for Clerical Celibacy
Married, ex-Episcopalian ordained a Catholic priest in California

[Boiler Plate]

He was about the only one. Peter was most certainly not.

[Boiler Plate]

let's keep it in context.

Matt 19

1When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

1 Timothy 4
Instructions to Timothy
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Add the obvious fact that nowhere in the OT does God require any of the Priesthood to abstain from marriage and the biblical case for a celibate priesthood kinda comes apart.

The more obvious case against the catholic rules against priests marrying have been headlines for some time. There are many Godly men and women who have served the Lord faithfully all the while being married and raising children.

[SuziQ]

Or, they may decide that having circuit rider priests are just fine, with laymen running everything else.

Or maybe they'll get more serious about their faith and raise up priests from their parishes like they used to. The lack of priests today is a direct result of the floundering of the Church in America just following Vatican II, up until the mid 90's. When the most recent crop of old Bishops began to be replaced, the Church pendulum started swinging back from the silliness of the 70's and 80's, when change was sought simply because some folks thought the old practices were outdated and unnecessary. They didn't have anything to replace them, and folks just lost their footing. And since the catechisis since the mid 60's has been SO bad, we have two generations of Catholics who are ignorant of their Faith, and are ripe for and searching for the Truth.

Many seminarians in the 70's and 80's were sold a bill of goods by their liberal professors when they were told that they didn't have to worry about having to deal with celibacy because the Church was surely going to change her mind about it. So these men were ordained without any instruction or preparation for this new life. There have been quite a few men who left the priesthood and got married because they thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. I'd be curious to see just how many of those men realized that wasn't true for them, and have since divorced.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Slightly ironic, considering that St. Peter...the FOUNDER of the Catholic Church

Christ founded the Catholic Church not St. Peter.

and Christs self declared "rock", was himself a married man who had children.

St. Peter was at one time married. Scripture never mentions his wife by name and Scripture never mentions that he had children. In fact St. Clement of Alexandrias' The Stromata mentions the following in Book VII Chapter XI:

'They say, accordingly, that the blessed Peter, on seeing his wife led to death, rejoiced on account of her call and conveyance home, and called very encouragingly and comfortingly, addressing her by name, "Remember thou the Lord." Such was the marriage of the blessed and their perfect disposition towards those dearest to them.

Thus also the apostle says, "that he who marries should be as though he married not," and deem his marriage free of inordinate affection, and inseparable from love to the Lord; to which the true husband exhorted his wife to cling on her departure out of this life to the Lord.'

Most of the apostles were married as well.

Scripture makes no mention of any of the other eleven being married. Scripture does mention that all of the Apostles gave up everything, including a wife if they happened to be married, in order to follow Christ.

Your revisionist history on the discipline of celibacy neglects to mention Canons XXVII and XXXIII of the Council of Elvira, circa 302 AD. You also fail to cite Canon III of the Second Council of Carthage, 390 AD:

"ut quod apostoli docuerunt, et ipsa servavit antiquitas nos quoque custodiamus"

The true foundations of priestly celibacy lie in the old Catholic belief that sex makes us "unclean".

The foundation of priestly celibacy lies in the Levitical priesthood of Melchisedech, in the Old Testament.

I suspect it has more to do with tradition today than anything else.

Don't kid yourself. You're simply ignorant of the topic being discussed.

[AnalogReigns]

I did some reading in St. Augustine several years ago about marriage, and it's clear he had the kind of taint of sin idea about it as you describe. Concupicence was understood to be inevivitable in any sexual act...hence the passing on of original sin in conception--and sin always present in the marital act.

An issue Augustine dealt with in his day were one group of Christians who thought to be a true Christian at all one must be celibate, and another opposing group who, like most today don't think celibacy is any more righteous than monogamy. Augustine basically split the difference--relying on the guidance of St. Paul (listed in a post above) without looking at the whole bible... hence we have the formal basis of two states of Christians, those with a calling (clergy & nuns) (who of course should be pure and celibate...) and those without (the rest of us).

His own pre-Christian life may have influenced him with guilt toward sex too...as he had a long-term mistress and even a son before being converted.

There was a complicated interlink of Greek negative ideas about the body creeping in with all the many thousands of new Christians in the 4th Century (after Constantine) and a concern over the sexual immorality many of these nominal new Christians brought in from their former paganism.

It's amazing how far some of the ideas went... To preserve the physical virginity of Mary for example, many thought that Jesus' birth was itself miraculous...not opening up the birth canal. They imagined the baby Jesus just suddenly appeared in Mary's lap I guess. This was never (that I know of) official dogma, and seems so odd as to be laughable today, but many RC Christians have believed this through time.

It should be admitted that the first generation Protestant reformers accepted without criticism the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary (nowhere supported in scripture), which of course is still a revered RC dogma today, and another point hard to understand, to us Protestant type minds.

Assuming there are enough priests, it is more practical (as St. Paul's argument seems to be) for them to be unmarried, however world-wide there is a severe shortage of RC priests... It may come to the point were the curia will have to bend. Better to have a godly (if a bit distracted) married priest, than an ungodly unmarried one... or no priest at all.

[Clemenza]

Having a family is a blessing, whether one is a priest or a layman.

The family is the foundation of Christian society. The clergy should reflect such priciples through having families of their own.

Time to get rid of the Paulist anti-marriage attitude that became law in the Church in the 1300s.

[A.A. Cunningham]

The Catholic church is short of priests.

As is the Greek Orthodox Church and many protestant denominations, all of which have married clergy. What is your explanation for that?

A reasonable, practical, and humane solution would be to keep priestly celibacy for those who desire it, but to allow separate orders of married priests to exist in parallel.

21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church will ordain a married man to the Priesthood. Those 21 Churches are also experiencing a shortage of Priests. Why is that if a married Priesthood is the panacea you speciously claim it is?