Why the .45 Matters

Strategy Page ^ | Feb 1, 2006

[John Jorsett]

Why do American troops prefer the century old .45 caliber pistol to lighter 9mm models. It’s all about “stopping power.” As far back as 1900, during the fighting against Moslem rebels in the Philippines, there had been complaints of enemy fighters getting shot and continuing to attack. From this experience, the then standard army pistol, a .38 caliber (9.65mm) weapon, was replaced by a .45 caliber (11.4mm) one. In the 1980s, the .45 was in turn replaced by a 9mm pistol. There were a lot of complaints about that, but 90 years of experience demonstrated that you should not depend on a pistol in the heat of combat. But that was largely European experience, in major wars. In these conditions, pistols were rarely used in desperate battles. The fighting in Iraq reminded everyone that, especially in urban combat, a pistol was still an essential weapon. Going into buildings, troops would often prefer to have one or two guys holding pistols, as these could get into action faster if you were in cramped and crowded conditions. At close range, you didn’t want someone with a gun, or a knife, to require a second shot. And at ranges measured in a few feet, you couldn’t miss. If the enemy was amped up, you wanted to take him down with one shot, because there might not be time for a second. Many police SWAT teams have stayed with the .45 for the same reason.

The M1911 was better at stopping people, and that was mainly due to the size of the bullet. Technically, the “hitting power” of a bullet is determined by the bullet weight and velocity, and is measured in joules. The widely used 9mm Parabellum generated 583 joules, the Russian 7.62mm Tokarev (mainly used to execute cowardly soldiers, POWs or uncooperative civilians) produced 499 joules, while the .45 (11.4mm) only came up with 450 joules. But there's a major problem in just using joules, and that is how much of that energy is actually applied to the person being hit. A smaller, faster bullet has a tendency to just go through someone. This does damage, often fatal damage, but if often does not slow down a highly energized soldier. A larger bullet, especially a blunt one, will be more effective at "stopping" someone. Thus the popularity of the .45 caliber pistol round. Although it has less energy than the 9mm round (450 joules compared to 583), those who have used both insist that the .45 is far more effective than the smaller and faster 9mm. Part of this has to do with the fact that the .45 (11.4mm) bullet hits with a 60 percent larger (as seen head on) area, thus it applied more of that energy to the target. This explains the greater likelihood of the .45 caliber bullet "knocking down" whoever it hits. The same physics applies to rifle bullets (although they tend to have pointy tips, unlike the blunter ones for pistol pullets.) A 7.62mm bullet is 88 percent larger (head on) than a 5.56mm one.

Even before the Department of Defense decided to switch back to the .45, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the U.S. Marine Corps went and got .45 caliber pistols for use as an “alternative” to the standard 9mm M9. SOCOM was never happy with the 9mm's pistol's stopping power, even in the very limited scenarios, such as terrorist hostage rescue, where they can legally use 9mm hollow-point ammunition for increased effectiveness. SOCOM went out and developed the HK Mark23 Mod 0 SOCOM "offensive" handgun weapons system. This weapon, based on a popular H&K design, is 1.53 inches wide, 5.9 inches high and 9.65 inches long. It weighs 2.42 pounds empty and uses ten or twelve round magazines. The original M1911 is 8.25 inches long, 5.25 inches high, 1.5 inches wide and weighs 2.44 pounds empty (add .4 pounds for a loaded, seven round, magazine). Some 2.7 million M1911s have been manufactured so far, 1.9 million of them during World War II. Some 650,000 of the new U.S. .45 caliber pistols are expected to be manufactured initially.

The U.S. Marine Corps have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But this supply is running out, and the marines have been eager to see the 9mm M9 pistol replaced with a new .45 caliber model. Some marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.

The SOCOM Mk 23 may not be a prime candidate for the new standard pistol. That’s because the Mk 23 is a large weapon. A new “standard .45” will be used by a wide variety of troops, including women (who have smaller hands.) It is possible to make smaller .45s. One of the smallest currently available is the Glock Model 37. This .45 caliber pistol is 7.32 inches long, 5.51 inches high and 1.18 inches wide. It’s 1.63 pounds empty, and 2.22 pounds with a ten round magazine. Glock began making .45 caliber pistols in the early 1990s, and has steadily improved that design. There are smaller .45s than these Glocks, but none that are as sturdy and reliable. So it is possible to get a smaller .45 design that will be as robust as the original M1911.

[Uncle Jaque]

Thanks for the correction.

As I said, "IIRC" (If i recall correctly); it's been over 40 years since I packed the old '01 around, but I was somehow under the impression that it used a slightly larger bullet.

Guess not!

I also can't garuntee the bore dia. of the '01 Colt, but remember that it was some larger than the standard .357.

If any of you have an '01 (I don't know of any other pistols chambered for the .38LC, although there probably were some) try the .38 spl wadcutters in it; the pressures are down to safe levels in these old wheel guns, and they are a whole lot cheaper and easier to find than the LC, which is getting to be a scarce "collectable" round.
I don't think anybody manufactures them any more, and hasn't for some time.

While you're at it, you can "slug" the bore and refresh my memory as to the actual bore dia..

My elder Brother, the last I knew, still has his late Father-in-Law's '01 which I got to play with as a youth, and I have been trying to wheedle it out of him for some time now.

He once asked me if he could load it with .38 Special +P rounds for protection from the bears when he was working in the woods, and I allowed as to how that probably was not a real good idea for a number of reasons - not the least of which was blowing up a fine old antique revolver.

[Uncle Jaque]

Although not a .45, perhaps one of the greatest handgun bargains of the year is the Czech surplus CZ-52 in .30 Tokarev or 7.63 X 25mm.

It is accurate and flat-shooting, and will get the attention of the other shooters on the line with it's muzzle blast and orange fireball eminating from the muzzle.

I call mine my "Pocket Carbine".

On my Curio and Relic FFL, I can still get a decent one for around $100 (including shipping).
You should be able to get one from a Dealer for around $175.

The .30 Tok is a really hot little round, which is sparking a renewed interest in the gun world.

Milspec .30 Tok has a velocity of around 1600 FPS with a 90 grain bullet, producing a ME of about 550 foot-pounds.

It has a reputation for "overpenetration" with the FMJ/RN projectile, but recent experiments with hollow-point bullets hotrodded up to nearly 1800FPS have been promising, and at least one small manufacturer is loading these rounds for the retail market.

My "Czech-O-Matic" is on the top, with an extended/ported 9X19mm barrel installed (easy conversion). The stock muzzle is flush with the end of the slide.

My fancy custom grip adapter is made out of a section of mountain bike inner tube that I scrounged out of the dump.
It works, and the price was right.

Beneath is my trusty old Argentine Systema '27 with Pachmyer grips. The sights on it were badly battered, so I replaced them and filed the rear notch out to about twice it's original width cause... I like 'em like that.

[mad_as_he$$]

I am with you brother! The subject(s) deserved cruel and unusual punishment........

[yarddog]

I too have a soft spot for the Systema Colts. I once bought three at a time knowing it would result in a card mailed to BATF. They did phone the dealer to check up on me too.

One of those three was possibly the most accurate centerfire I have ever owned with a Russian Makarov being right there with it.

At 20 feet it would just keep putting all the shots in one only slightly enlarged hole.

I traded it off in one of my more foolish deals. I suspect it would have shot well under an inch at 25 yards if I had taken the trouble to really test it right.

[Squantos]

Gheesh multiple shots and he still missed that big pink triangle in front of him.....:o)

[Casloy]

I think stopping power is a confusing term. A 45 has no more stopping power than a 9mm since the ratio of the weight of a human against a bullet, even the size of a 45 caliber is too great. A 45 does so much more damage that the person hit will fall faster than if shot with a 9mm. The image of someone flying backwards when hit with a bullet defies the laws of physics and is the creation of Hollywood.

[Secret Agent Man]

I also have been told that once you have one (and you're on file as having one) that allows searches to your house without warrants.

[ExSoldier]

I also have been told that once you have one (and you're on file as having one) that allows searches to your house without warrants.

Absolutely correct. You voluntarily surrender your 4th Amendment rights, just so the feds can come and insure that you have current possession of said firearm or device (suppressor) and they will check the serial numbers!

Of course the plain sight rule still applies and if they see anything that suggests you may be into something unlawful....it will be used against you in a court. That's one important reason I would never go the classIII route. Not because I'm some kind of BG, but because I would dislike having feds come knocking at 0300HRS.

[OKSooner]

'nother bookmark.

[knightshadow]

You're welcome cgk! Regards to your Dad.

[SLB]

My late father-in-law was an aide to a general who was in the Philippines fighting the muslims. The general had a scar from a sword as proof of the lack of stopping power from the .38 specials they had then.

[Squantos]

I loved to read the stories you shared about your FIL's adventures.

Ya might consider a book SLB......write it down now while you can remember it clearly !

Stay safe !

[FreedomPoster]

Yes, it just amazes me that we've had to go through this same process twice in the Army. A severe breakdown in institutional wisdom right there. The board that made the M9 decision was short a few grizzled, combat-experienced E-8s.

[Don Joe]

The Army and Marines are validating your love for M-14. They have put them back into service with "regular" troops in Iraqi. They designate the lucky guy as "unit marksman" and he usually is in a security position.

They are drawing from a finite inventory, which has suffered a telling blow during the Clinton era. He caused untold numbers of them (as well as Garand and other irreplaceable pieces of history) to be "demilled" (in other words, chopped to pieces).

Many, such as the ones from which the pieces in the link below were taken, were new/unissued condition -- a monumental waste of the taxpayers' money.

And there wasn't even the fig-leaf of an excuse pretending that by destroying them, "they wouldn't end up on the street." The M14 rifles that he caused to be destroyed were prohibited from being sold into the surplus market, due to the fact that they are fully automatic weapons.

The only thing that makes sense, is that he intended to cause harm to the military, and, to the economy. And today, his actions are causing American soldiers to die, as they wait for the scant few remaining M14 rifles in the inventory.

Here, take a look at the use he put your tax dollars to. You not only paid to have these rifles built, but, you also paid to have them destroyed.

But wait, it gets better....

It seems that after destroying these valuable tools, even more tax dollars were wasted, "beautifying" some pieces of the destroyed rifles, to make them into "checkers" pieces for a Democrat VIP.

A little salt in the national wound, perhaps?

Take your BP meds, and then click on the link below:

Checkers, DNC-Style

(Disclaimer: I have no connection with that person, I don't even know who he is. I was shown the link, and now I'm passng it along.)

[Don Joe]

Although not a .45, perhaps one of the greatest handgun bargains of the year is the Czech surplus CZ-52 in .30 Tokarev or 7.63 X 25mm.

It is accurate and flat-shooting, and will get the attention of the other shooters on the line with it's muzzle blast and orange fireball eminating from the muzzle.

I call mine my "Pocket Carbine".
[...]
The .30 Tok is a really hot little round, which is sparking a renewed interest in the gun world.

Milspec .30 Tok has a velocity of around 1600 FPS with a 90 grain bullet, producing a ME of about 550 foot-pounds.

It has a reputation for "overpenetration" with the FMJ/RN projectile

I knew someone who had an A/D with one (dropped it, it went off), he was lucky -- the bullet went through his leg bone, into his knee, through his knee bone, out his leg, into a 4x4 stud, through the stud, and for all I know is still in low earth orbit. It's an amazingly powerfull "little" round.

It is not the gun to take bowling pin "hunting", though. I saw bowling pins that never even twitched when hit. The bullets went clean through them so fast that there was no visible movement to the pin whatsoever.

"Pocket Carbine" is not much of a stretch from what I've seen of them. I don't know about its value as a personal defense weapon, though, unless its incredible overpenetration could be tamed by expanding ammunition. (And if they do become popular, I'd expect to see them demonized (and probably outlawed) as "cop-killer" guns because of their ability to penetrate most soft body armor.)

[yarddog]

If it were possible for me to despise Clinton any more than I do, then your post would have done it.

I read somewhere that a bunch of like new Winchester 52 .22 target rifles were also destroyed.

[Don Joe]

That's not a gun.
This is what REAL men use!!!

Wrong platform.

For Total Bubba Effect, that crap should be hanging off a "tactical" SKS. :)

[epow]

The 180 grain hollow point is the flying ashtray. Big fat hole in the middle. I have a couple boxes of the +p 180 grain ashtrays down stairs.

The original flying ashtray was the Speer Lawman 200 grain JHP. It was not loaded to +P pressure. I'm not sure Speer makes it anymore now that they have the excellent Gold Dot bullet.

I have a few left over from a box someone gave me about 15 years ago. I had several FTF while plinking with them so I carry either Winchester 185 grain Silvertips or Remington 185 grain JHP, both of which function 100% in my old Colt using Wilson magazines. The Silvertip was one of the first high performance .45acp rounds on the market. It's a little out of date now but it still feeds as reliably as any modern JHP, and it expands better at the lower velocity you get from short-barrelled guns than most of the modern gee-whiz JHPs.

[mad_as_he$$]

AAHHH yes the Clinton legacy. It is very sad. I had heard that somebody was going to gear up to make new M-14's. I do know that the Marines have some limited in house capability to assemble. Not sure how much manufacturing they can do.

[Don Joe]

AAHHH yes the Clinton legacy. It is very sad. I had heard that somebody was going to gear up to make new M-14's. I do know that the Marines have some limited in house capability to assemble. Not sure how much manufacturing they can do.

Well, they can always buy them from the Chinese government, just like the Pentagon is currently doing -- throwing some $20 million tax dollars at the PLA to buy replacement AK47s and ammunition for Iraq. Replacements? To replace what? To replace the millions of dollars worth sitting in storage that we destroyed, of course! (Which we probably bought for Saddam back when he was our "friend".)

I swear, the more I see of this crap, the more haunting are Ike's warning of the "Military-Industrial Complex."

(And not to digress, but I thought that we were promised that the oil would cover the cost of the Iraq "liberation". What ever happened to that deal?)

Final salt in the wound (it's bedtime and I feel like crap), the Chinese "company" we are paying all that money to, to re-arm Iraq -- it's currently under indictment for -- while buddy-buddy with Clinton -- trying to smuggle in thousands of machineguns. The Chinese general involved in the deal (thank God it was an FBI sting operation) suggested selling them to gang-bangers.

So, this Chinese "company", prohibited from doing business in this country, is the beneficiary of this Pentagon deal, in which they will receive over twenty million tax dollars.

What's wrong with this picture?

Damn, there goes my blood pressure again.

PS: To keep this on track, I mentioned the Chinese connection because they do manufacture an M14 "clone". And at the rate things are going, I wouldn't really be surprised if we do end up seeing American soldiers fielding them! Sometimes it seems like "Job One" is to ensure that whenever possible, to whatever extent possible, the Chinese military is financed by the USA.