Posted on 01/29/2006 11:14:04 AM PST by John Jorsett
After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.
The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.
SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.
Funny, I used one to get a perfect score in the qualifying test for my concealed carry license. Perhaps your head is really tiny and requires exceptionally precise shooting?
I also agree completely that the accurate arms statement was a standard CYA if some yahoo over-stuffs a cartridge. On your glock I agree that your barrel probably leaves a lot hanging out there, as does a lot of current production guns, including a lot of 1911 clones. My personal carry gun, A "Star PD" is one of those. What I was saying is that there is less hanging out there than there was on some of the previous production runs. My observations on damage done by case head ruptures is based on personal experience of 30+ years of professional(full time) and semi professional gunsmithing (weekend and occasional). (Admittedly most of the case head failures I have seen can be attributed to over zealous handloading. But occasionally I would see one where factory loads were used.) I have seen some damage that my normally logical mind would say "how in the world.....?".
Logic would seem to indicate that most of the energy would go out the magazine well. However if you will examine most semi auto pistols you will find that when the bolt is in battery, the chamber end of the barrel will sit up to an inch forward of the leading edge of the magazine well. This location is usually centered right over the trigger and the trigger finger. Because of this the easiest route for the gasses to escape is often Not the magazine well but rather through the trigger area and trigger guard. This is also unfortunately the same place the trigger finger can be found, which can be quite painful for the possessor of said finger. Even the relatively "low" pressure(21,000 psi) 45 acp can do significant damage on a case blow out.
I'd rather be armed and ready than unarmed and vulnerable.
Hallefreakinlujah.
That 9 mil is the most worthless POS I've ever had the displeasure of shooting.
The .357 SIG is perfect for the military.
More penetration than the .45 or 9mm, harder hiting than the nine, jam proof, lighter ammo, higher capacity, and more one-shot-stops than the .45.
LOL
Too many nice folks here have the penis measurement issue. I can afford Kimbers, Colts, you name it. I would never own a .45ACP. I'd take a Sig P226 in .40 S&W or maybe the sister .357 Sig.
The read here is that "y'all gotta own a .45 ACP because that's the biggest one dat I got."
".45's don't have clips."
huh?
The standing world record group for light gun 600 yard BR is 1.071". 3/8" at 525 with a 30-06 no less defies credibility.
The 1911A1's can be incredibly accurate if you put the time into it. My old man competed for years in civilian pistol shooting (and still does) with a 1911A1. He has an FFL and built his competition pistol himself. When working on the gun, he would take a grinding stone, scrape the slider *once*, and measure it with a micrometer. If it wasn't perfect he would repeat the process until it was. Once when I was a teenager and broke, he gave me a box full of .45ACP shell casings and a micrometer, and paid me to separate out the good ones (within .005" of spec) from the bad. He was somewhere in the top 5 in the US one year, I think and was considering going out for the Olympics but the absence would have hurt his career.
It's not his daily carry-around gun, mind you, (with tolerances that tight it jams too easily), but it is an amazingly accurate weapon if you want it to be.
Glocks are ammo sluts.
They'll do anything, take anything.
Mark
I've got 2 .45 1911s that are both more accurate than I can fire them... And I've shot a 1911 that grouped 1" at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest.
Believe me, the 1911 can be one heck of an accurate pistol.
Mark
Other than that, a superior weapon.
Yes! We've been using poly-fill....pillow stuffing! Works great. :-)
When I was a kid we would walk the woods with .22's and 12 gauge shotguns...when we would come upon an abandoned car and the hunting was slow and we got bored, we would pepper the already shot up car with more rounds.....yes, bullets go in a car door and out the other side...but the more metal you have around you the better and if you are on one side of the car, the rounds have to penetrate through both doors and seats and such. I do remember reading about the Son of Sam have his low velocity .44 special rounds bouncing off of winshield glass when the angle was wrong.
If I had my druthers all officers would be armed with either model 29 S&W or ruger redhawk revolvers in .44 magnum. Revolvers are still the acuracy kings...if you make a semi auto accurate, you most likely have sacrificed reliability to feed.
my inventory consists of 2 ruger vaqueros (hence the name...they are for C.A.S.)in .45 Colt(a bear of a caliber especially when loaded up to the rugers potention). 1 long barreled redhawk ruger in .44 mag...it has taken 2, 200 lb whitetail at 50 yards...a model 19 S&W and you cant beat that powerhouse for both power and light weight. I also have my previously mentioned 1911 made for the war in 1943, some .22 pistols and a 357 italian made derringer that is a bear to shoot.
There has to be some compromise between accuracy, power and carry-ablility.
My dad who was on the job for the NYPD for many years carried the same old dog earred model 10 S&W in .38 special, not with the current crop of +p loads but regular subsonic 158 grain lead slugs. this will work well enough on whatever needs to be stopped under most circumstances, but we must remember the Moros of the Phillipines when the USarmy had issued the .38long colt round at the turn of the 19th century and Black Jack Persing was there to put down the Moro insurection and the story was that a Moro hopped up on a local weed would kill a soldier who emptying his weapon into the perp...the Moro only armed with a machete. The Army quickly dug out all the old SAA colt Peacemakers in .45 Colt, from mothballs to issue to a bunch of thankful grunts on the front line.
I can see wanting something light and easy to conceal. I am looking at a piece in either .32 or .380ACP for that purpose. I do however recommend that uniform police carry at least a .40 S&W on the job.
This reminds me of a couple of guys I knew back in the late 1980's/early-1990's.... They bought a Lee 1000 progressive reloader, and it had a BAD habit of either double, or triple charging cases! Actually, it ONLY did this once. ...and that one batch had a double (or triple) charge in it. These were .357 Mags they were loading, and they blew up a REALLY nice Colt Trooper! It was a classic back strap blowup! Fortunately, the shooter wasn't injured (just a sore hand).
This is NOT news for any current or former serviceman or one who watches the industry.......I spoke of this here when SIG and S&W came out with their clones......
SIG and S&W both come out with a 1911 variant, Springfield, Kimber, etc etc etc all pay their bills with the 1911 variants and even glock came up with a PC flavored 45GAP version that will allow the petite handed troop be they female or male to use the glock 17 size frame w/ a glock 21 sized frame and a ballistic clone of the 45ACP round albeit a "shorter" round to fit the smaller framed handgun.
Albeit the 1911A1 is my favorite I also pack a glock 21 or a SIG 220 on occasion to fit the requirements of some PC organization that would not allow the 1911A1 platform.
I'll suggest that the SIG 220 gets the official nod for replacing the M9 Beretta due it presence in the system for spec ops and aircrews in the 9mm flavors. But the system for selecting the firearms issued is fickle so anyones guess is possible........
SIG220 if the 1911A1 design is passed on.......is my first guess for the replacement of the M9.
I managed to hit myself in the temple with a riccochet from a .38 at 15 yards shooting at something I shouldn't have been shooting at. Scared me, but enough force had gone out of the round before it boomeranged back on me. Raised a welt but for someone stubborn as a mule and....more.
Pleased to meet the acquaintance of someone else just as stubborn.
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