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Evolution study tightens human-chimp connection
EurekAlert (AAAS) ^ | 23 January 2006 | Staff

Posted on 01/23/2006 4:31:58 PM PST by PatrickHenry

Scientists at the Georgia Institute of Technology have found genetic evidence that seems to support a controversial hypothesis that humans and chimpanzees may be more closely related to each other than chimps are to the other two species of great apes – gorillas and orangutans. They also found that humans evolved at a slower rate than apes.

Appearing in the January 23, 2006 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, biologist Soojin Yi reports that the rate of human and chimp molecular evolution – changes that occur over time at the genetic level – is much slower than that of gorillas and orangutans, with the evolution of humans being the slowest of all.

As species branch off along evolutionary lines, important genetic traits, like the rate of molecular evolution also begin to diverge. They found that the speed of this molecular clock in humans and chimps is so similar, it suggests that certain human-specific traits, like generation time, began to evolve one million years ago - very recently in terms of evolution. The amount of time between parents and offspring is longer in humans than apes. Since a long generation time is closely correlated with the evolution of a big brain, it also suggests that developmental changes specific to humans may also have evolved very recently.

In a large-scale genetic analysis of approximately 63 million base pairs of DNA, the scientists studied the rate at which the base pairs that define the differences between species were incorrectly paired due to errors in the genetic encoding process, an occurrence known as substitution.

"For the first time, we've shown that the difference in the rate of molecular evolution between humans and chimpanzees is very small, but significant, suggesting that the evolution of human-specific life history traits is very recent," said Yi.

Most biologists believe that humans and chimpanzees had a common ancestor before the evolutionary lines diverged about 5-7 million years ago. According to the analysis, one million years ago the molecular clock in the line that became modern humans began to slow down. Today, the human molecular clock is only 3 percent slower than the molecular clock of the chimp, while it has slowed down 11 percent from the gorilla's molecular clock.

This slow down in the molecular clock correlates with a longer generation time because substitutions need to be passed to the next generation in order to have any lasting effect on the species,

"A long generation time is an important trait that separates humans from their evolutionary relatives," said Navin Elango, graduate student in the School of Biology and first author of the research paper. "We used to think that apes shared one generation time, but that's not true. There's a lot more variation. In our study, we found that the chimpanzee's generation time is a lot closer to that of humans than it is to other apes."

The results also confirm that there is very little difference in the alignable regions of the human and chimp genomes. Taken together, the study's findings suggest that humans and chimps are more closely related to each other than the chimps are to the other great apes.

"I think we can say that this study provides further support for the hypothesis that humans and chimpanzees should be in one genus, rather than two different genus' because we not only share extremely similar genomes, we share similar generation time," said Yi.

Even though the 63 million base pairs they studied is a large sample, it's still a small part of the genome, Yi said. "If we look at the whole genome, maybe it's a different story, but there is evidence in the fossil record that this change in generation time occurred very recently, so the genetic evidence and the fossil data seem to fit together quite well so far."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: chimpanzee; chimps; crevolist; evolution; fossils; ignoranceisstrength; paleontology; youngearthcultist
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To: highball

>but edited the quotes to make it appear as though they were supporting his contention.

Could you please show us all the quote in question before and after the revision/modification? I've never edited a quote, that I can remember.

Thank you.


721 posted on 01/27/2006 9:01:42 AM PST by TheBrotherhood
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To: TheBrotherhood

In other words, if someone points out that you're a liar, you simply ignore them rather than coming up with a response.


722 posted on 01/27/2006 9:46:15 AM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: hail to the chief

No, they're not worthy of a response.


723 posted on 01/27/2006 9:50:20 AM PST by TheBrotherhood
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To: TheBrotherhood
So what you are saying is that anyone who disagrees with you is inherently wrong. You have no evidence that they are wrong, and you have nothing to say other than repeating what you originally (falsely) claimed, but you will not actually counter anything that has been said to show that they are right. You cannot possibly claim to have even the slightest shred of an argument when you refuse to argue.

To all evolutionists and IDers interested in a rational, scientific debate, I suggest we leave this troll to his own devices.

724 posted on 01/27/2006 10:00:23 AM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: VadeRetro
missing warpcore Count-Up Clock: 72h 03m 00s
725 posted on 01/27/2006 10:18:03 AM PST by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: TheBrotherhood
You know Brotherhood, once you clear away all the clever quibbling and evasive circular logic, we get to the nub of the assault on you. Basically it is Lady Hope is a liar and therefore so are you.

But since Darwin never made public his faith re awakened nor his recantation of evo, no one will ever know for sure. This insistence that because his family was not aware of this may not be evidence of anything other than they were not aware of everything that Darwin took in his heart to the grave with him. The truth is no one will know on this issue.

Actually it is not as important to me as it seems to be to them whether this happened or not, likewise whether it some evo or creo website approves it. In any event AIG said 'it appears Darwin did not recant', this is not a factual assertion at at all as, once again the distorter's would insist otherwise.


You know Brotherhood, by their own logic and what constitutes evidence I will say

1. Evo never happened

or

2. There is a much greater case to be made that Darwin recanted to Lady Hope than there ever was for evo to have happened.

Now as far as any assaults on my honesty or integrity etc., This has come from the same group that says the Bible is all fairy tale and evo with all the dead ends, (and all the fraud occurred in its short history) is true.

Wolf
726 posted on 01/27/2006 11:09:39 AM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: hail to the chief

IOW, NO that is not what he said either Demented junior.

Wolf


727 posted on 01/27/2006 11:11:10 AM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: TheBrotherhood
Could you please show us all the quote in question before and after the revision/modification? I've never edited a quote, that I can remember.

Then your memory is short indeed.

You made the bold assertion several times that Darwin recanted on his deathbed. You called it "historical fact." When asked for evidence to support this claim, you posted:

Lady Hope "did visit Charles between Wednesday, 28 September and Sunday, 2 October 1881, almost certainly when Francis and Henrietta were absent, but his wife, Emma, probably was present."

This was in post #451.

The problem with this "evidence" to support your claim is that the sentence is incomplete. The sentence actually reads "Moore concludes that Lady Hope probably did visit Charles between Wednesday, 28 September and Sunday, 2 October 1881, almost certainly when Francis and Henrietta were absent, but his wife, Emma, probably was present." (emphasis mine) You eliminated the beginning of the sentence, making Moore's opinion appear to be a statement of fact.

It gets worse. You also conveniently ignore the sentences following the one you quoted, which read:

(Moore) points out that (Lady Hope's) published story contained some authentic details as to time and place, but also factual inaccuracies—Charles was not bedridden six months before he died, and the summer house was far too small to accommodate 30 people. The most important aspect of the story, however, is that it does not say that Charles either renounced evolution or embraced Christianity.

That's called quote-mining. You pick one piece of a quote, edit out others, and remove it from its context to make it appear to say something other than what it actually says.

It gets worse. You also ignore the final paragraph of the essay:

It therefore appears that Darwin did not recant, and it is a pity that to this day the Lady Hope story occasionally appears in tracts published and given out by well-meaning people.

So much for your "historical fact." This is from a creationist website, no less, and you still couldn't find anything whatsoever to back up your false claim.

That was a transparently dishonest reponse to being challenged in a lie. It only compounds your original error.

I was willing to cut you the benefit of the doubt at first. I thought you were maybe simply mistaken. But when you lied defending your lie, it became clear that you were simply being dishonest.

I've never edited a quote, that I can remember.

So as we have seen, your memory is short. Or you could just be lying again.

728 posted on 01/27/2006 11:40:50 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: RunningWolf; TheBrotherhood
The truth is no one will know on this issue.

That is the most charitable reading one can give of Lady Hope's story, which is (as Answers in Genesis admits) contains "factual inaccuracies."

It's also not what TheBrotherhood posted. If he had said that "no one will know," that could have been defensible.

But TheBrotherhood said that Darwin's deathbed recantation was "historical fact." He repeated that phrase several times.

Which, even by the most charitable reading of Lady Hope's story, is a lie.

729 posted on 01/27/2006 11:53:03 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: RunningWolf
What?
730 posted on 01/27/2006 12:27:15 PM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: longshadow
Sometimes you just can't fake it placemarker.
731 posted on 01/27/2006 1:26:03 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: narby
Only that they are more "changed" from the ancient common ancestor of all these species. One of the great mistakes in many people's understanding of evolution is that it is designed to create "higher" life. It is not. Evolution's primary goal is to produce creatures that survive, by whatever means necessary.

Which means that future human culture will look middle eastern and worship Allah. Western Culture is on a downward spiral and Islamic on an upswing, merely because of who has babies and who does not.

But won't that culture be more likely to self-destruct given its inclinations coupled with the technology at hand? You do agree with Wilson as far as Darwinian sociobiology goes?

732 posted on 01/27/2006 1:38:35 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (The ACLU is a communist organization posing as liberty fighters.)
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To: highball
Look forget about what AIG says. Or is that the one thing AIG says that you agree with, is that it?

Since no one knows for sure except Darwin and maybe Lady Hope, it is equally "historical fact" whether this happened or not, it all depends who's word you want to take.

Now what you consider to be defensible or charitable is irrelevant the historical factualness of Darwin's recantation, and addressing that would be a waste of my time anyway so I wont even get into that.

Wolf
733 posted on 01/27/2006 1:48:01 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
So anything anybody ever said is a "historical fact?" Are you sure you're not a liberal?
734 posted on 01/27/2006 1:52:08 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: b_sharp
I'm a MONKEEEEEYEEEAH!!


735 posted on 01/27/2006 1:52:34 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (The ACLU is a communist organization posing as liberty fighters.)
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To: PatrickHenry

All the best symphonies are written by chimps. :)


736 posted on 01/27/2006 1:52:46 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: VadeRetro
So anything anybody ever said is a "historical fact?"

NO!! I DID NOT SAY THAT.

NO!! I'm not a liberal. I wont even accuse you of that.

But several of your pals.., I could make a very good case for them being liberal as all get out, well maybe not here in the evo court could I make the case of course.

Wolf
737 posted on 01/27/2006 1:59:52 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
Since no one knows for sure except Darwin and maybe Lady Hope, it is equally "historical fact" whether this happened or not, it all depends who's word you want to take.

Wow.

Just... wow. I need to look at that again.

it is equally "historical fact" whether this happened or not

You believe that "historical facts" are in some way a matter of interpretation?

It shouldn't surprise me that you have a rather fluid definition of the word "fact", I guess. What surprises me is that you'd actually admit that.

738 posted on 01/27/2006 2:04:07 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
//You believe that "historical facts" are in some way a matter of interpretation?//

Did not say that either. Plese quit replacing my words with you conclusions.

Even if I gave that to you (and I don't), go back to the logical example Vade uses against me right in this thread.

No!, and since you ignored this in your response, here it is again to reply to.

//
But since Darwin never made public his faith re awakened nor his recantation of evo, no one will ever know for sure. This insistence that because his family was not aware of this may not be evidence of anything other than they were not aware of everything that Darwin took in his heart to the grave with him. The truth is no one will know on this issue.

By their own logic and what constitutes evidence I will say

1. Evo never happened

or

2. There is a much greater case to be made that Darwin recanted to Lady Hope than there ever was for evo to have happened.
//

As far as logical failure, everything you throw at me I can come back tenfold against your side. You know its true, or maybe you don't. I think perhaps you guys don't see how far all over the map you are, how much you contradict yourself. What looks like victories to you are not.

Wolf
739 posted on 01/27/2006 2:19:01 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
Must run work to be done.

Wolf out
740 posted on 01/27/2006 2:19:47 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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