Posted on 01/22/2006 8:12:41 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
Creationists call us to believe the Biblical creation story as a literal account of historical events. However, Genesis contains two distinctly different creation accounts. Which creation story are they calling us to "literally" believe?
For generations, serious students of Scripture have noted stark divisions and variations in the age of the Hebrew, its style and language within Genesis. As we have it now, Genesis is actually a composite of three written primary sources, each with its own character, favorite words and distinctly different names for God. Such differences all but evaporate when translated into English, but they are clear in the ancient Hebrew text.
The first creation account, Genesis. 1:1 to Genesis. 2:4a, was written during or after the Jews' Babylonian captivity. This fully developed story explains creation in terms of the ancient near eastern world view of its time. A watery chaos is divided by the dome (firmament) of the sky. The waters under the dome are gathered and land appears. Lights are affixed in the dome. All living things are created. The story pictures God building the cosmos as a supporting ecosystem for humanity. Finally, humanity, both male and female, is created, and God rests.
The second Creation story, Genesis 2:4b to 2:25, found its written form several centuries before the Genesis. 1:1 story. This text is a less developed and much older story. It was probably passed down for generations around the camp fires of desert dwellers before being written. It begins by describing a desert landscape, no plants or herbs, no rain; only a mist arises out of the earth. Then the Lord God forms man of the dust of the ground, creates an oasis-like Garden of Eden to support the "man whom he had formed." In this story, God creates animal life while trying to provide the man "a helper fit for him." None being found, God takes a rib from the man's side and creates the first woman. These two creation stories clearly arise out of different histories and reflect different concerns with different sequences of events. Can they either or both be literal history? Obviously not.
Many serious students of Scripture consider the first eleven chapters of Genesis as non-literal, pre-history type literature, with Abram in Genesis. 12:1 being the first literal historical figure in the Bible. This understanding of Genesis causes an uproar in some quarters. In most church communities, little of this textual study has filtered down to the pew. But, in their professional training, vast numbers of clergy have been exposed to this type of literary scriptural analysis.
In my over 28 years as a pastor, I have encountered many people who are unnecessarily conflicted because they have been made to believe that, to be faithfully religious, one must take a literal view of the Genesis creation accounts. Faced with their scientific understandings going one direction and their spiritual search another, many have felt compelled to give up their spiritual search altogether. This all too common reaction is an unnecessary shame!
So, the next time someone asks you if you believe the Biblical story of creation, just remember the correct reply: "To which Biblical creation story do you refer?"
Replace "FSM" with "ID." That is exactly the point being made.
I wouldn't call it disdain. There is a big difference in who Christians believe Jesus is and who Mormon's believe Jesus is.
Christians believe that Jesus is God Himself taking on a human body to live and die among us. Jesus Himself said that he and his Father are one and if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father.
Mormon's believe that Jesus and Satan are both children of God, half-brothers. This takes away the diety of Christ that Christian feel is essential to their faith.
Now, I don't want to start a debate on this thread about the Mormon belief system; there are other threads on the Religion Forum that address the issue for anyone who's interested. I just offered this as way of an explanation to you comment about why it's so important to Christians. I also do not know much about the JW views on who they think Jesus is.
"In light of your understanding of the subject, I can't help but wonder how you can remain an atheist."
That's a fair statement. Religion is an interest of mine. I'm interested in what different religions teach, so I read their scriptures, books about the religions, etc. I also have, over the years, talked to many teachers and scholars of different faiths.
My atheism is based solely on my inability to believe that any deities or other such supernatural entities exist. I have no problem believing that humans are benefited by religion, though.
My understanding is that the Bible has turned out to be very accurate historically. At one time the Bible was criticized for mentioning peoples and civilizations that there was no record of. Many of the civilzations that were mentioned in the OT were later found out to have existed. Many other historical documents are given more credibility that the Bible. For some reason, it appears that people are far more willing to question the credibility of the Bilbe than other sources.
What!?
First year bible students can figure THIS old canard out!
How many folks have gotten 'saved' under his leadership?
Acts 17:26-2726. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.Romans 5:12-21
12. Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
13. for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16. Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
19. For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
21. so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You do well with HTML, although I'm not sure I see how it enhances what you write.
I'm not asking you to believe or disbelieve anything. I'm just saying that many Christians, perhaps a majority, have no problem with the theory of Evolution.
As I am not a Christian, I suppose you'd have to ask them the reasons for their acceptance of evolution as the means used to create all those species.
Still, you do know how to use HTML. Very good!
Yup...
The 'first' one is an overview of ALL creation, and the 'second' focuses on Man and his story.
And this would be found where?
Then have you figured out...
...how someone could be a Bible "allegorist" and ignore/deny parts of the Bible as well???
One was that you believed in your heart. The other was that you confessed with your mouth.
One more that I believe few Christians have done is taken the time to "know why they are saved".
I would hope more Christians take that journey from the heart to the head and mature in their faith.
To often many Christians only get caught up in the emotion of the Spirit.
For you though, I will pray your heart will soften and this knowledge you have of his love will endear your heart to him.
Sounds good to me!
I think that FAITH has something to do with it!
"And this would be found where?"
Are you serious?
You could start with the 3rd chapter of John. It's a pretty simple statment by Jesus, one that's often quoted.
For the two great commandments, you can look at the 12th Chapter of Mark.
This is the basis of Christianity. Belief and following those two great commandments, which are sufficient to encompass all other commandments.
If you doubt this, I suggest that you reread the four Gospels, and soon. All else is commentary.
Well...
Why SHOULDN'T they be???
They are, after all, telling the SAME EVENT!
Their stories (as well as things that interested them) then became a major part of the Bible.
"They are, after all, telling the SAME EVENT!"
Well, they are telling the same story of creation, in any case. Other religions in other regions of the world have much different creation stories. It's quite natural that the story told by Moses would be similar to that of Egypt, or the Zoroastrians, or the other religions of the region.
In other places, creation myths are quite different in nature.
I understand that you believe the Mosaic creation story. That's fine, since that reflects your particular faith. Others, however, believe other creation stories. Some of those stories are even older than the Old Testament.
All are good stories to tell around a campfire. They offer a simple explanation that can be understood by anyone. Are they literally correct? Nope. They're stories. Nobody was around to see the beginning of the universe.
According to my liberal friends, not unless we sign Kyoto.
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