Posted on 01/14/2006 12:02:09 PM PST by wagglebee
WHEN A MILITARY chaplain appeared on ABC News last week talking about how pornography is becoming a problem for troops overseas, I listened. When the chaplain said real women at home couldn’t measure up to the impossible pictures, I thought of this woman I had seen years ago in a bookstore on base in Japan.
I shouldn’t remember her. The woman was not one of those people you even notice, much less remember. She had no distinct hair color, no charm of face. She reminded me of wide egg noodles and cream of mushroom soup and Minute Rice.
But I noticed her when her sailor husband handed her a stack of magazines maybe 5 inches thick. Penthouse. Playboy. Hustler. Worse. He must have picked up every single porn mag the bookstore offered.
While I watched and the people behind me watched, the wife took the stack from him. She held it in hands that had probably stroked his face, patted his back, clutched his thighs. She handed the stack to a clerk. Then, in front of a line of 10 people, with her husband waiting impatiently by the door, she slowly signed her name to the bottom of her personal check. She did it as if pornography were something you brought home weekly, like milk or eggs or Minute Rice.
Until that moment, I’d always thought pornography was no big deal, a boys-will-be-boys kind of thing. Seeing her in person shook me – her pasty face, her quiet resignation.
So I paid attention to the news segment. It talked about these 11,000 sexual purity kits that are going to military members in Iraq. Following the popular “Every Man’s Battle” series from New Life Ministries, the kits promote Bible-based abstinence: no pornography, adultery, nonmarital sex or masturbation.
I heard that and kind of winced. It seemed too old fashioned a solution for a time when pornography is as available as a paper-wrapped burger. It made me think of some of those goofy venereal disease movies from World War II.
It also made me think of two couples I know who have divorced over pornography addiction, and the stories I read every week about how it’s becoming more of a problem for every age group.
But a religious text? I just didn’t know. I picked up a copy of one of the books at a Christian bookstore. At first I was uncomfortable reading it. I’m Christian. I practice my faith, but this book was written by men who are far more zealous in their faith than I am in mine.
The authors write about sexual purity and a man’s relationship to God. Their recommendations seem a little extreme – suggesting that men avoid not only pornography but also magazine advertisements and movies with a rating over PG-13.
The more I read, the more I understood why the chaplains had ordered the book. The second half of the book is about protecting the marriage. It talks about how to handle yourself if you become attracted to someone else. It offers a behavior strategy should someone become attracted to you.
The authors don’t say if; they say when. They don’t write as though men are idiots or slaves of passion. They remind their male readers to honor and cherish the women they married, to remember what their wives gave up to be married to them.
I am a little leery when it comes to imposing a specific faith’s teachings on military men. Still, I can’t stop thinking about that woman in the bookstore. I can’t stop thinking about her husband. This sexual purity kit is a tool that chaplains are turning to to help families like that one. It isn’t the only tool against pornography, but it certainly may be the most powerful one yet.
You know you can get your very own pornstar name? Just take the name of your first pet and add on the name of the street you lived on at the time (Warning do not try if from Manhattan. Nobody ever found Sandy - West 83rd a sexy name)
Chipper Falkland
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
There's nothing wrong with a married couple making up some Jiffy Pop and slapping something really nasty in the DVD player when the kids are away.
L
That's exactly the sort of irresponsible misapplication of scripture that tears marriages apart.
"Adultery in his heart" is the same thing as "adultery in his body" in the eyes of God. In this sense, it is on the same footing as taking the Lord's name in vain. But you don't see many women listing "taking the Lord's name in vain" in their divorce papers, do you? That's because they're not equivalent sins as far as the marriage is concerned. Anyone who gets the idea that they are has lost all rational perspective.
Most well-adjusted men (and even rabbit-fearing Presidents) "lust in their hearts" every time they walk down the street, but ask their wives whether this is the same thing as stopping off at the brothel on the way home from work, and they'll say no.
So even if porn users should have to settle up on Judgment Day along with the adulterers, that's no reason to talk people into breaking up their marriages in this world. And it doesn't even save anyone's soul: I'll bet that for every marriage so ruined, there's a wife who's taken the Lord's name in vain many more times, besides.
Why do you keep talking about "need"? It pleases my eye, is that not sufficient? I don't "need" chocolate, and it certainly doesn't do my waistline any good, but I enjoy it just the same.
Or just to satisfy that urge when she won't comply?
What if I said "yes"? Would that make it bad, or good?
I never claimed porn was a reason to break up marriages. I was responding to your comment marginalizing all anti-porn detractors as "busybodies and televangelists."
That's exactly the sort of irresponsible misapplication of scripture that tears marriages apart.
You have exactly misinterpreted the point Christ was making. In that section of his sermon, he was correcting incomplete teachings by the Pharisees and scribes. "You have heard it said blah, but I tell you blah instead." The Jewish teachers had set up a system by which one could completely ignore the spirit of the Law while still easily honoring the letter. In this case, they had effectively taught that as long as you weren't physically comitting adultery, it didn't matter what was going on in your heart. Christ clarified that position.
Any normal healthy man will "lust" walking down the street. It is an automatic response to desire an attractive woman. At the point of desire, each man has a decision to move on or to dwell in and foster lustful longings. Rubbing one out to porn images is not demonstrating an intent to keep his heart pure. It is the opposite.
Here, again, is what I said:
Then some busybodies--or televangelists--come along and tell her that if he's looking at porn, it means he doesn't love her, that he's disrespecting her, that he's cheating on her.
Now: Do you believe that if a man looks at porn, his wife should consider that as equivalent to adultery?
Rubbing one out to porn images is not demonstrating an intent to keep his heart pure.
The discussion you joined was considering the effects of porn on marriage. Purity of heart is another issue entirely. Women don't divorce men because they suspect their intentions regarding the purity of their hearts.
No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Like anything, too much porn is a bad thing, so are you saying we should outlaw porn because of the few who overdue it? The obvious analogy would be alcohol or tobacco. There are millions of couples who use porn to enrich their sex life. ....THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.
Wow....repression AND anger issues....
And throughout this discussion there have emerged two fairly distinct schools of thought on the subject. There are those who think porn is OK and harmless, and that women who resent the competition are insecure boobs. There are those who think porn is a pernicious influence and that the use or presence of it is a threat to a marriage. Most of the people on this thread who have argued against the use of porn, IIRC, do so from a perspective of Christian faith. This is important because the two sides will do nothing but argue past each other, as they come from entirely different perspectives.
For the record, I believe as a Christian that when I took up the cross, I submitted to the death of my self to allow for the birth of one who is humbly subject to Jesus Christ. It is a daily (sometimes minute-to-minute) decision to stay submitted. My marriage and everything else in my life must reflect that change. Everything I do with regard to my marriage can be looked at through the following prism: Am I blessing my marriage by doing this thing; am I submitting this thing to Christ? There will be Christians, possibly on this thread, who disagree with that premise.
The discussion you joined was considering the effects of porn on marriage. Purity of heart is another issue entirely.
I disagree. Any individual's capacity to marry right starts with the condition of his or her heart. At the very least, the state of one's heart is a fair gauge of future behavior. An act of revenge would never happen were the vengeful party not nursing thoughts of revenge, starting with the very first spark of it in his heart. Prayerfully taking captive or dousing that spark, even if it means doing the thing over and over, will short-circuit the progression to a vengeful act.
Ultimately, If a man nurses lust for women other than his wife, his heart is not reflecting obedience to Christ's teaching. He is in rebellion. Which gets to the point of your first question - Do you believe that if a man looks at porn, his wife should consider that as equivalent to adultery? To which I would say, he and she both should acknowledge that he is degrading himself and the marriage with his rebellion. I cannot say that it is the same thing as literally having sex with another woman, though Christ said something that makes it sound close, if not the same.
Will check for response in a few hours.
Thank you for that well thought out answer. You're right.
There is no such thing as a little "harmless dabble" into sin. Sexual immorality is a sin. Lusting after other women in order to "spice up" your natural God-given relationship with your wife is sexually immoral. Buying the products that support the industry is supporting and condoning the behavior of the ENTIRE industry.
Would you want your wife or daughter trading places with the "actresses" on the screen? Why then would you pay money to support the industry that turns women into whores?
The only 3rd party in your marriage, and that includes ALL parts of your marriage should be the Lord. Sin is always in our life, and the Christian needs to implement daily, even hourly guards against it. Letting a little bit of it in will eventually let all of it in. John Owens in his book "The Mortification of Sin" spoke nicely on sins natural desire to expand and inflate - saying that if sin had its way, every passing desire of the heart would be increased to it's fullest. Every lustful glance would be rape, every angry thought would be murder. Sin doesn't stop, and it's always looking for an in. Be wary of it.
Remember, above all, we're called to live lives of holiness, pursuing the things of Christ, and setting our minds on things that are above, not wordly passions.
hogwash.
But there's a way to normalize that out. Consider the percentage of atheist divorces that cite pornography as one of the grounds for divorce. Then consider the percentage of Christian divorces that cite pornography. If the problem really is pornography, these percentages should be the same. If the problem is religious teachings, the Christian percentage should be much higher. Honestly, now: what's your expectation?
Ultimately, If a man nurses lust for women other than his wife, his heart is not reflecting obedience to Christ's teaching.
Maybe so, but should that break up marriages? Really? Given that a man is in a state of rebellion, does Christ teach that his wife should reject him?
I cannot say that it is the same thing as literally having sex with another woman, though Christ said something that makes it sound close, if not the same.
Why, the faith just gushes out of you! As for me, they're worlds apart, of course. But on the other hand, I didn't buy into Clinton's Biblical greenlighting of fellatio. That is adultery. I guess every libertine is somebody's puritan.
Wow. Stunning retort, Hildy.
Do you have specific points, or is it just an overall "talk to the hand"?
Tell me, do you have children? How would you feel if your daughter came to you and told you she wanted to pursue a career in porn? Would it bother you?
Try looking at it this way. Would it improve your relationship with your wife if she was looking at Playgirl and masturbating on a regular basis? Would this improve your relationship with her or worsen it?
Not Playgirl, per se -- and it's probably not regular, but it's not infrequent either -- but yes, but I've watched my wife get turned on from various media and it is fun and arousing to watch. It's never worsened our relationship -- and some of the things it's inspired us to have improved it.
That is not a very Christian attitude.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.