Ich liebe Das Sushi!
Posted on 01/10/2006 1:49:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
SUSHI DAS discovers what men think about feminism.
'FEMINISM has turned women into selfish, spoiled, spiteful, powerless victims," shrieked the email. "Men are talking, can't you hear it? Marriage rates are down, birthrates are down, men are using women for their pleasure and then leaving them."
If it was only one of a handful of emails I received, I might not have given it much thought. But there were many more. "I do not think it's men or boys that need reforming. I think women are the main instigators of hate against one half of the population," wrote another man.
Then there was this: "I have healthy relationships with women and always have protected sex to avoid entrapment … why should I risk losing everything I own and having my children taken away from me?"
And this: "The modern guy is not looking for the 'services' past generations did, they often just want a nice person to share their life with, rather than someone who is going to be climbing corporate ladders, getting pregnant when she chooses and then assuming complete control of a child's life. That is not to say they are not supportive of women's careers and goals."
The emails were a response to a challenge I posed to men on this page a couple of weeks ago. Specifically, I asked them to engage in debates relating to "feminist issues" and show they understood that equality, women's rights, the work/life imbalance, the declining birthrate, sexual politics and relationships generally are important to everybody, not just women.
I received, a tsunami of emails. Many were considered arguments. A significant number were the bitter outpourings of men hurt by women. Some elucidated the frustrations of men who couldn't find Ms Right. Sadly, many were simply vitriolic or abusive.
In the hundreds of emails, anger appeared to be the underlying emotion because the writers believed the pendulum had swung too far in favour of women. There were some common threads: men were angry that women's needs took priority over theirs; they felt men constituted the majority of the unemployed, the homeless, the victims of industrial accidents and suicides, that men's health received less funding than women's, and that boys' education was poor. In relationships, they felt some women were "not very nice to men" and were often too selfish to consider their needs. These concerns are real,
but how many can really be blamed on feminism?
Essentially, men raised three broad concerns over why they did not engage in the debate on feminist issues. First, they were scared of being howled down by aggressive feminists who dismissed their views. Second, they felt they were victims too, but women didn't listen to them. Third, they were confused about what women really wanted and what constituted appropriate behaviour.
On the first issue, I agree, some women are dismissive of men's views simply because they are men. Men who speak out, wrote one man, are "smashed upon the rocks of indignation" and this made it "a very, very scary debate to engage with". Another said: "Opting out of an argument in which we cannot hope to be allowed an equal voice let alone a fair outcome is a perfectly rational response."
My response? Get over it. If you're a man and you have an opinion, speak out. Put your case. It will stand or fall on its merit. Stop being scared. There are plenty of women willing to listen. And if you get howled down, get up and say it again. That's how women got their voices heard in the 1970s.
On the issue of men as victims, some argued women too are violent, that men have few rights on abortion, that female teachers get off more lightly when they sexually abuse male students, that men are vilified as pedophiles, that affirmative action is discriminatory, that women frequently win the custody battle. Clearly these concerns require attention. Perhaps it is governments that are not listening to men, rather than women.
Finally, some men were unsure of their role in society. This is complex, and women must recognise this. But men should also let common decency be their guide to appropriate behaviour. Being a decent human being shouldn't be that hard.
Equality is a prerequisite for development. When the shouting from our respective corners is over, perhaps resentment from both sides will melt.
Many emails I received were a cry from the heart from men. But it's not just about women listening to their words, it's about men taking action to improve their own lives. This means speaking out, whatever the consequences — engaging in the debate on equality or feminism or whatever it is called these days.
With that in mind, I'll leave the last words to a man: "Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We need to speak though. We do not want our daughters growing up stunted by arguments or situations that could have been campaigned away. Equally, our sons require education. But how do we do this with integrity? That's the challenge for all involved."
And sometimes, when relationships become settled, we all need to be reminded of those things... Because we all need that :~D
I just wish she didn't sound so shrill when she talks to people on the radio... For a woman with books on being a model spouse (didn't she write one for each side?), she sure can be a battle axe in how she deals with everyone else.
My husband the engineer was a great boyfriend, and he is a great husband.
When we dated, he took me on great dates. Some were expensive (symphony and dinner), and some were inexpensive and cheap (watching the sunset while eating cheese and drinking wine). He sent me flowers, and treated me respectfully.
As a husband, he's provided a wonderful home and the finances to allow me to stay home. He's a also a great dad! Plus he's also a freeper!
Not my engineer husband (or old boyfriend). My friends all loved him. My parents didn't, but they never liked any of my boyfriends.
**Thanks for the laugh**
You are welcome. Glad you are laughing because that is what a lot of this "I've been wronged so I hate women" deserves. The same with the feminists' "I've been wronged so I hate all men." I think freeper men can try to reach a little higher than that but it is funny when they don't.
When I watch feminists berate men - no one in particular who has harmed them, but just the nature of men in general, often I see them as cartoon characters playing a role. Because of personal problems with men that they never resolved, they decided to hate all men. I look at Maurine Dowd and Gloria Stienman as Wile E Coyotes - always setting traps for men and blowing themselves up. I look at meninists the same way. All the patterns I have observed in bitter feminists over the years, I see repeated here in the meninists.
I don't think it was healthy that no one told the Dowds and Stienmans to get a grip and I don't think it is healthy for us to coddle the angry meninists who lash out at women in the conservative movement, either.
But thats just me...and my husband who has read the men versus women threads and some sexually threating e-mails I have received, and has made me promise this is the last one I will approach. He does not me interacting with men who hate women and now he does not want me going to any Freerepublic activities, either. He thinks the men on this board are probably dangerous. Pretty soon the meninists on FreeRepublic will be sitting around ranting about women with one another alone - just like the feminists "progressed" to do.
Her book was better than listening to her.
I think women especially forget about taking care of their husbands when they have kids. You get so worn out taking care of the kids all day, that you forget about your husband.
Of course, I think men should head my advice. If you want your wife to have sex with you, do the dishes after dinner. There is nothing sexier than a man helping his wife in the kitchen.
Considering the many men I knew from John Wayne's generation, you are absolutely right.
"I just think there are a small minority of people (I won't even say it's just men) who have a warped view of relationships, and a need for power over somebody."
I think there are people, men and women, who are confused about what a traditional marriage really is. Both seem to think it's about the man having all the power and control. It's not.
Ich liebe Das Sushi!
We don't have kids, so I find myself without a lot of excuses for being worn out when he gets home. Oh - found one: It's this damn forum ;~D
I gotta go get some chores done... :~D
Good for him. The latter posts on this thread have taught me just how different people can be. Obviously not all men are looking for the same thing, and not all women are either. From the sounds of it, I'm too much of a risk taker to ever be an engineer.
Good words of advice. Your husband is probably right.
As a woman of 53 who is engaged to a man of 47, it was his outward appearance which initially attracted me.
Both of them were seeking someone who made them feel secure and outward appearance meant little to them (thank God!)
Depends on what you mean by secure. My fiance's outward appearance was of a man who was in shape, stronger physically than I but was also attractive. I was and am perfectly capable of supporting myself in the style I've become accustomed to so I don't need a man for financial security. One caveat though - the man must be self-supporting too.
Men want looks, women want security.
Not in my case. If I'm not physically attracted to you, all the money or security you might have to offer isn't going to make me want you.
Call me a hater or basher, but a slim figure and attractive face is what does it for me. I don't care if she flips burgers at Sonic. If a woman has doubled her body weight since her 20th birthday, cut her hair shorter than mine and has a uni-brow, I simply do not wish to engage in an intimate relationship with her.
I'm not going to call you a hater or a basher. I will say though for me there has to be a little something more behind an attractive face and physique. My fiance is a certified appliance repair tech and has his journeyman's HVAC license (working towards his contractor's license). My father and the Dad's of the kids I was raised around were all executives or professionals. I too can say I don't care what type of job a man holds as long as he's self-supporting.
Of course I don't consider myself a feminist either. I enjoy being a woman and I don't dislike or hate men.
She deals with people who need to be "gotten through to."
Well, in fairness, I found my husband on FR. It has its good people too :~D
Agreed; and a previous poster talked about men and women as puppies and kittens. My husband would concur; he says, "Basically, men just want to have our tummies rubbed and be told we're GOOD Boys." :)
I suppose she does but ~man~
Right On! They do adjust except that the adjustment is couched as a matter of being a team to make a place in life for each other and a family, the WAY it used to be prior to about 1965.
I suspect men have known this for a long time and, in their better interest, have kept quiet about it. However, in the face of overwhelming evidence, as a woman, I must conclude that "sistas" all are indeed sniveling, simpering imps.
Feminism, go home. Go back to the bedrooms and kitchens where at least for generations you served a purpose. Only there can you achieve the level of mediocrity not remotely evidenced in boardrooms and cubicles since your forcible entry into the office four decades ago.
The Battle of the Sexes has yielded a simmering stalemate, though men concede women have long won the war. The men quit fighting, stopped trying, and no longer care to please their women because they know they can't. Men have lost plenty. They are no longer significant in the estimation of women.
Here's an example of what happens today. At my job once, there was a team-building activity companywide. Each person was assigned a task only they could do. As each person performed his or her role, the team accomplished its goal. Each team, when done performing its task, was to integrate its piece with another team. Each team contributed to the building of a whole unit, which represented cooperation among all departments within a company.
Instead of achieving corporate nirvana, a shameful quagmire resulted. In an instant, a dozen shrill, power-hungry women converged upon a table and started screaming at subordinates to follow their spontaneous, ill-prepared orders. They hijacked the plan, threw out the rules and imposed a cult of personality where the one who shouted the loudest and the meanest and the most often was the winner. A periphery of impotent employees, mostly men, ringed the dominant table of blond ambition.
How did this happen? When did men become trivial? What makes women think they are at all important? Why are the rational-minded marginalized and not celebrated instead?
The balance of power has shifted so dramatically that women have developed a delusional sense of self-worth. Feminism promised women they could be anything they wanted to be without offering a constructive way to achieve greatness. Initiative, ambition, education, dedication became pitiful ploys in contrast to the effectiveness of exhibiting emotions.
Employing what I call "emotional extortion" offers immediate gratification. Pouting over hurt feelings, throwing temper tantrums and hurling accusations of meanness gets you what you want. Why work hard and try often when a crying jag swiftly gets you what you want? Why risk failure when fearful employers hand you the vestiges of victory?
Simply put, women have run amok. Men are losing their ground as they endure blatant abuse by women day after day, decade after decade. Men are wonderful beings, worthy of much praise and appreciation. I am ready for the Man Movement to begin. Somebody please, stop these women before they ruin our lives. I need a man to save me from the wreckage of stupid women.
Alessandra Eakin is an Atlanta writer.
I think thread is about men engaging the feminine independence which is now a part of US culture, by say, stipulating their needs in a relationship. The problem is that most men don't approach relationships that way, its either there for them or not. They simply shop around and many shop all their reproductive , youthful years away. Interesting thread. But then things are probably different in Australia!
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