Morgan StanleyFires Male StaffersFor Strip-Club Trip

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | January 5, 2006; Page C3 | RANDALL SMITH

[MRMEAN]

NEW YORK -- Morgan Stanley has fired a stock-research analyst and three sales staffers in the Wall Street firm's institutional-stock division after they accompanied one or more clients on a visit to an adult-entertainment club, according to people familiar with the matter.

The firing of the staffers, all men, sent a message that exclusionary, male-only activities won't be tolerated at the firm, according to people familiar with the matter. In mid-2004, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $54 million to settle a gender-discrimination case. As part of the settlement, Morgan Stanley denied wrongdoing but agreed to take additional steps to promote diversity and conduct antidiscrimination training.

One of the complaints in the gender-discrimination case brought by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission was that women in the same institutional-stock division had been improperly excluded from certain client-related activities such as male-only golf outings and strip-club visits.

The EEOC complaint in 2001 followed an individual complaint filed with the EEOC in 1998 by a former institutional-stock saleswoman, Allison Schieffelin, who was fired in 2000. She had charged that gender discrimination caused her not to be promoted to managing director.

...

In the recent episode, the four fired employees were all technology-industry specialists who made the strip-club visit during free time while they were attending a three-day Morgan Stanley conference for tech investors in early November at the Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa in Phoenix.

The firm has a policy against participation in an exclusionary event while on company business, people familiar with the firm said. One rule specifically bars attending adult-entertainment establishments in connection with company business. One or more clients were present at the Arizona establishment, one person familiar with the matter said.

[Clemenza]

Virtually all the male students were frat boys and the march was their way of old boy networking, a way of cutting off the girls from the getting into the partnership career path.

Tough sh-t sweetheart. If you don't like it, learn how to bake.

[Clemenza]

BWAHAAA!

[MarkL]

Oh! Wait! Of course! For liberals being exclusionary IS inappropriate and immoral.

Actually, women do go to strip bars these days, so it couldn't have been exclusionary... The article doesn't even say if any female employees were there, and if so, if they were invited to go.

And since stipping is a constitutionally protected right (`cause the SCOTUS says so), Morgan Stanley is actually trying to abridge the Constitutional rights of the strippers! And they're trying to keep the poor stripping college students from being able to make a living, by firing the staffers!

I think that the staffers should sue their ex-employer for firing them for supporting the civil rights of the strippers!

Mark

[cherry]

thanks Beav.....at least one sound opinion among the Neanderthals......

[beaver fever]

Blow it out your a** and don't respond to me again.

Have you ever worked with a company where a clique of second rate employees went out the way to make you look bad with the boss? I have and the leader of the group was an ex officer in the Russian army who was pi**ed because he had his land holdings in the Ukraine confiscated after the fall of the USSR. He was a supreme ass kisser. Your responce indicates to me that you have no problem with ass kissers.

I've read a few of your posts and thought you were quite reasonable.

I've changed my you are a complete idiot.

[RichInOC]

Just a guess...the Robert "Lap Dunce" McCormick thing might have had something to do with these guys getting fired. Even if the sexual-harassment thing weren't a potential problem, Morgan Stanley almost certainly has no desire to be the next firm to get clowned by the Daily News and the Post because some of their guys got drunk and frisky and ran up a five or six-digit tab in the champagne room.

[Savage Beast]

"One of the complaints in the gender-discrimination case...was that women...had been...excluded from certain client-related activities such as...strip-club visits."

Okay. Big deal. Take 'em along. Let 'em get a lapdance or two--as long as they pay for it themselves.

[JeffAtlanta]

In the recent episode, the four fired employees were all technology-industry specialists who made the strip-club visit during free time while they were attending a three-day Morgan Stanley conference for tech investors in early November at the Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa in Phoenix.

Morgan Stanley might have another wrongful termination suit on their hands. Many people in the IT field are friends with others in the field. This visit to the strip club was on their own time.

If the guys entertained clients there then I can see how they would be violating the new rules, but if they were just hanging out with a bunch of people then I don't see how that could be against the rules.

[Clemenza]

Have you ever worked with a company where a clique of second rate employees went out the way to make you look bad with the boss? I have and the leader of the group was an ex officer in the Russian army who was pi**ed because he had his land holdings in the Ukraine confiscated after the fall of the USSR. He was a supreme ass kisser. Your responce indicates to me that you have no problem with ass kissers.

Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on what we were discussing, ie the oversensitivity of women in the workplace and their inability to accept the fact that men are men and that we don't want to change.

Anyone who surrounds themselves with ass kissers is bound to either fail due to their subordinates incompetance or wind up doing all of the work through micromanagement of said incompetants. Good managers see past the political BS and look for talented people. Bad managers, well, we've BOTH seen what happens to folks who are afraid of anyone smarter than them.

As far as your opinions of yours truly, if I had to worry about what others on a website or in the workplace thought of me, then I would not accomplish anything. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it.

BTW: I have NO problem with you on a personal level and my opinion hasn't changed.

[beaver fever]

Your're quite welcome.

My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.

[Clemenza]

Actually, women do go to strip bars these days, so it couldn't have been exclusionary.

Don't remind me. The only women who should be seen in a strip club should be working a pole or serving drinks.

[JeffAtlanta]

My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.

Then you have a naive view of the world. Guys, unlike women, don't join sewing circles and talk about the latest Dr Phil book to bond and have a good time.

[Junior_G]

My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity.

Apparently, the new definition of male maturity is unfettered gayness.

[ishabibble]

You know, in all seriousness, that's exactly what they should have done. These guys who were going to a strip club on their own time should have invited all their female colleagues along, too. A simple yes or no for the record, and all that PC BS is rendered moot.

Another thought I had was that these men are being forced into the closet of heterosexuality. If they were four homosexuals who went to a "queer" bar, not a single repercussion, not a peep, they'd have gotten perks for being "diverse". Men need to stand up for themselves, for God's sakes!

p.s. I cringe when I hear grown men say "WE are pregnant" or a 49 yr.old mega success man say that his 4 yr.old son is his "best friend". Because they have so much in common?
Men need to use their own words again, and not the mommy words. "Use your words" is mommyspeak, as I am a woman and the mother of two grown sons. If either son ever came to me and told me he was pregnant, I'd smack him!

[Petruchio]

Yeah, take 'em along next time . . . on Amature Night.

[WestVirginiaRebel]

The women were most likely excluded because the guys were jealous of their hair and makeup.

[Clemenza]

I got smacked down by my mom and sister for using MAN words in discussing my ideal relationship. My father just grinned in approval. ;-)

[mikeybaby]

From what's been reported, they paid for the legal activities out of their own pocket.
I've never been a fan of strip clubs (I've got many better ways to waste money, such as cars and alcohol), but I have friends and clients who are addicted to them, for whatever reason.
What they did was legal and they paid out of their own pocket.
Unless there was a specific company policy dis-allowing this behavior on personal time I'd sue MWD asses off.
Scr*w Political correctness.

[beaver fever]

"Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on what we were discussing, ie the oversensitivity of women in the workplace and their inability to accept the fact that men are men and that we don't want to change."

What I said was not a Non Seqitur. You might want to look it up since you don't know what a fallacy is. I suggest Aristotle's 'Sophici Elencis'.

The topic of the thread is old boy exclusionism and my remarks relate directly to that.

Also I was talking about the conduct of male articling students cutting their female colleagues out of the loop.

I've seen it myself and careerist frat boys are a bunch of pri**s who make their way through life because of a secret handshake.

Your sweetheart comment was insulting. Only Humphrey Bogart could pull that off. An you are definitely not as suave as Bogey.

[Poser]

"My opinion is that any man over the age of 19 who goes to a strip club to 'socialize' is emotionally and intellectually stunted and will probably never reach maturity."


Clearly, you don't know much about men.