Evolution's Thermodynamic Failure

The American Spectator ^ | December 28, 2005 | Granville Sewell

[johnnyb_61820]

... the idea that the four fundamental forces of physics alone could rearrange the fundamental particles of nature into spaceships, nuclear power plants, and computers, connected to laser printers, CRTs, keyboards and the Internet, appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics in a spectacular way.

Anyone who has made such an argument is familiar with the standard reply: the Earth is an open system, it receives energy from the sun, and order can increase in an open system, as long as it is "compensated" somehow by a comparable or greater decrease outside the system. S. Angrist and L. Hepler, for example, in "Order and Chaos", write, "In a certain sense the development of civilization may appear contradictory to the second law.... Even though society can effect local reductions in entropy, the general and universal trend of entropy increase easily swamps the anomalous but important efforts of civilized man. Each localized, man-made or machine-made entropy decrease is accompanied by a greater increase in entropy of the surroundings, thereby maintaining the required increase in total entropy."

According to this reasoning, then, the second law does not prevent scrap metal from reorganizing itself into a computer in one room, as long as two computers in the next room are rusting into scrap metal -- and the door is open. In Appendix D of my new book, The Numerical Solution of Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations, second edition, I take a closer look at the equation for entropy change, which applies not only to thermal entropy but also to the entropy associated with anything else that diffuses, and show that it does not simply say that order cannot increase in a closed system. It also says that in an open system, order cannot increase faster than it is imported through the boundary. ...

[Elsie]

Don't understand why they are resorting to personal attacks.

Ooooh... me neither!

[bobdsmith]

By "stuff" he is refering to the complex molecules that our bodies produce in order to work. He is pointing out that according to the reasoning of the author of this article such complex molecules should not be being produced naturally as it would contradict the 2nd law of thermodynamics. So indeed we would be running out of this "stuff" if the 2nd law of thermodynamics really did say what the author claims it does.

[Dan(9698)]

It will eventually be possible to directly verify it when the technology is available...

That is a statement of faith in things hoped for but which are not seen, just as described by the Apostle Paul in the New Testiment.

It is OK to cover the gaps in our knowledge with statements of faith. I do it all the time.

[Elsie]

Reply: You actually posted this. It is breathtaking. It's a keeper. Let's imagine an ID universe. Where, exactly, would rationality fit in? If your Faith says that disease is sent by a god to afflict the insufficiently devoted, and science says "wait a minute", there are germs, where do you stand? If Faith says the earth and Atlantanisans are the center of the universe, where would you step in to say, "wait a minute"?

And so did you!

[bobdsmith]

That is a statement of faith in things hoped for but which are not seen

Evolution has already been indirectly verified. I was pointing out that in time it will inevitably be directly verified too, or perhaps falsified, but given the current evidence I doubt that.

[Elsie]

"Most everything about me may shout, 'SIX' to you; but at my heart, I'm really five."

[Elsie]

if nothing else, we really need to get rid of the ape genes we still carry that cause these damned wisdom teeth which fit nicely and were useful in the longer ape jaw but just get jammed up and cause health problems in the rear of our smaller more human jaw.

I guess I'm a monkeys uncle, 'cause I gots ALL my WISDOM teef and have no problems with them!

Therefore, by extension; everything you just said is untrue.

(Pardon my hilljack pronounciation)

[Elsie]

The guy led an incredible life and is now fading into history.

It's that 'one life' thing: posted just above 419

[Elsie]

ID rejects Christ as Saviour

Oh?

How?

[Coyoteman]

Evo-activists are nothing more than fascists trying to supress criticism of their views.

Pretty good, we got to post #366 before being called fascists. (Can Hitler and Stalin be far behind?)

[Elsie]

Over the past three years I've run into an increasing number of Europeans/Asians/South Americans etc. who are outright scared to travel into the "interior" of the U.S., Texas included. They stay in NYC, LA, SF, Chicago and Miami. At the same time, I've seen a growing phenom of really bright American born kids who think nothing of bouncing from jobs in Paris to Madrid to Berlin and Tokyo/Osaka.

And this means... WHAT?

[Elsie]

...our circulatory system is identical to that of apes.

And pigs.

[Elsie]

You are just a liar. There is no point in "engaging" you.

Does Dimensio have the day off?

[Elsie]

I think you and Ich and I and a few others see the damage this has and will cause.

Boo Hoo!

BooHoo!

BOOHOO!

[Elsie]

I think you and Ich and I and a few others see the damage this has and will cause.

Attention!

The sky has officially fallen at this point in time. It's safe to exit your cave.

[mad_as_he$$]

lol

[Elsie]

You quote mythology to support your mythological argument?

Why not? After all...

You quoted physics to support your physical argument!

[AndrewC]

Isn't complexity really subjective?

Well, yeah. It is a concept. As such, the word used could be "fluffiness". The fact is, something discernable exists between a cloud of gas and a PC. And that something is more(different) than "color", "temperature", "mass", or "position".

[Elsie]

Is it absolutely impossible for you to discuss this without misrepresenting the Theory at hand?

HUH?

[Dan(9698)]

Evolution has already been indirectly verified.

There is evidence to justify some faith in the theory of evolution, granted.

There is also equally compelling evidence to justify faith in the Creator.

There are gaps in both belief systems that are covered by statements of faith by their adherants.

There is nothing wrong with making a statement of faith.

We who believe in the Creator do it all the time.

I don't take it personal that evolutionists do it too.

Neither can state that there is proof beyond what they beleive. Someday both may be able to show proof.