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Evolution's Thermodynamic Failure
The American Spectator ^ | December 28, 2005 | Granville Sewell

Posted on 12/28/2005 3:01:53 PM PST by johnnyb_61820

... the idea that the four fundamental forces of physics alone could rearrange the fundamental particles of nature into spaceships, nuclear power plants, and computers, connected to laser printers, CRTs, keyboards and the Internet, appears to violate the second law of thermodynamics in a spectacular way.

Anyone who has made such an argument is familiar with the standard reply: the Earth is an open system, it receives energy from the sun, and order can increase in an open system, as long as it is "compensated" somehow by a comparable or greater decrease outside the system. S. Angrist and L. Hepler, for example, in "Order and Chaos", write, "In a certain sense the development of civilization may appear contradictory to the second law.... Even though society can effect local reductions in entropy, the general and universal trend of entropy increase easily swamps the anomalous but important efforts of civilized man. Each localized, man-made or machine-made entropy decrease is accompanied by a greater increase in entropy of the surroundings, thereby maintaining the required increase in total entropy."

According to this reasoning, then, the second law does not prevent scrap metal from reorganizing itself into a computer in one room, as long as two computers in the next room are rusting into scrap metal -- and the door is open. In Appendix D of my new book, The Numerical Solution of Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations, second edition, I take a closer look at the equation for entropy change, which applies not only to thermal entropy but also to the entropy associated with anything else that diffuses, and show that it does not simply say that order cannot increase in a closed system. It also says that in an open system, order cannot increase faster than it is imported through the boundary. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: creation; crevolist; evolution; intelligentdesign; law; mathematics; physics; scientificidiocy; thermodynamics; twaddle
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To: Cicero
"In other words, a billion animals over the entire history of earth would be hard put to recreate a single line of Shakespeare."

Researchers at the Raleigh Institute near Manchester, England, announced that the monkeys in their lab produced a perfect version of "Romeo and Juliet."

"We've been holding our breath for weeks," says Alan Ripshaw, the researcher in charge of the Monkey Project. "We knew the monkeys were getting close, but we've had a number of false starts.

"One time they got to the fourth act of Macbeth, before making a mistake. The monkeys also recently typed out a Norman Mailer novel, but that doesn't count."

Ripshaw says he began the project because he was intrigued with the controversy over whether Shakespeare really was the author of the plays bearing his name.

"Some scholars think Bacon was the real author," Ripshaw says. "That's when I had the thought, 'What if they were written by monkeys?'

Ripshaw assembled 5,000 monkeys and an equal number of typewriters. The monkeys were rewarded with bananas every time they filled up a page with letters.

"Ninety-nine percent of it was nonsense," Ripshaw says. "But one of the monkeys put up a blog on the Internet, and it has a big following."

But a researcher making a final check says the monkeys made a mistake. "In one reference, they spelled 'Romeo,' 'Romero.'"

Says Ripshaw, "I guess it's back to the drawing board."

-- JAKE ANDERSON of the Weekly World News

161 posted on 12/28/2005 5:40:28 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Coyoteman
Better?

Yes, thanks.

162 posted on 12/28/2005 5:40:28 PM PST by Logophile
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To: thomaswest

Your stubborn ignorance transcends my patience (yes, I know, patience is a virtue, but do pigs wear pearls?)


163 posted on 12/28/2005 5:41:26 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: thomaswest
Emulsified water and oil hardly seem to me to fit the definition of disorder. The molecules are still distinct and separate. (Believe me when I say I have no expertise in any of this.)

Looks to me like following similar reasoning, the erosion of varied sizes of mountains, boulders, rocks and pebbles into a smooth beach of evenly sized particles of sand is the creation of order.
164 posted on 12/28/2005 5:43:54 PM PST by OSHA (Deviled eggs may be better the 2nd day. No one knows for sure.)
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To: Cicero

Nor do I need 7 million, I need only one. It is anthropic argument - since I am around and see it - I have won. Other 6999999 are irrelevant and could [and should] fall through some cracks, so as not to spoil the view from my window. And the view from my window is predicated on my having won, with probability 1.000.


165 posted on 12/28/2005 5:46:48 PM PST by GSlob
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To: editor-surveyor
Amazing how disjointed things become when you're either too lazy, or too ignorant peruse them in depth.

Exactly. If Sewell had fully developed any of his points the essay might have been worth reading (even if still false:) Anyway, tell it to The American Spectator. They published it.

166 posted on 12/28/2005 5:46:55 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Logophile
"Did Crick and Watson credit Darwin in their work on DNA?"

Neither did they give proper credit to Rosalind Franklin after stealing her early work on DNA . . .

167 posted on 12/28/2005 5:47:12 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: tortoise
All we need is enough high-order algorithmic information to start the bootstrap...

Are we to assume that information is pre-existing in that 8-bit machine?

168 posted on 12/28/2005 5:47:14 PM PST by polymuser (Losing, like flooding, brings rats to the surface.)
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To: thomaswest
And: Please show us where miscible/immiscible liquids are mentioned in the 2nd law.

One of the problems with discussions such as the present one is that the parties do not take the trouble to provide a clear and unambiguous statement of what they mean by the "Second Law."

169 posted on 12/28/2005 5:47:15 PM PST by Logophile
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To: freedumb2003
The only reason I get involved is because I worry about our kids getting screwed up thinking that when you hit something you can't explain, you basically throw your hands up and say "magic did this." That is very real damage.

That's a good reason. Thank you.

170 posted on 12/28/2005 5:47:51 PM PST by phantomworker (I trust my intuition and speak my truth... Don't accuse me of your imagination!)
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To: editor-surveyor; Cicero

You wrote: "So, how do your "probability calculations" allow for you to exist when the probability is infinitesimally small?"
"A question like that could only come from one too lazy to study God's word sufficiently to understand it, and to take recognition of the massive amount of numeric evidence in the word to prove that only God could be it's author.

"You have made yourself, intellectually speaking, a pool of frozen 'primordial soup.' (mud)"

Reply:
Laughing out loud. In fact, ROTFLOL. This is a keeper.

Your post is the perfect demonstration that ID has nothing to do with science and is all about "proof of God" and {poofs}. This is exactly why ID has failed.

Actually, I am quite happy that our species evolved and that I am here to enjoy the pleasures thereof.


171 posted on 12/28/2005 5:48:44 PM PST by thomaswest (the whole Communist Humanist Secularist Evolutionist plot to fluoridate the water supply)
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To: editor-surveyor
Your stubborn ignorance transcends my patience (yes, I know, patience is a virtue, but do pigs wear pearls?)

" You cannot make a silk purse from a white man's ear.." (The Master of Sinanju)

Nothing to do with the topic, your statement just reminded me of " The Destroyer " series of pulp novels..

172 posted on 12/28/2005 5:51:55 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: thomaswest
It's mathematically impossible for bees to fly..

Problem is, we haven't found a way to tell them, so they just keep buzzin' along..

173 posted on 12/28/2005 5:54:03 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: phantomworker

How about an evaluation of what Darwin said as quoted in post 116?

He started a Religeon of psudo science. Professors are preaching it still.


174 posted on 12/28/2005 5:55:32 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: Liberty Wins
Neither did they give proper credit to Rosalind Franklin after stealing her early work on DNA . . .

Yes, they did..
They not only gave her credit, she wrote an accompanying article that appeared in the very same issue of Nature as theirs.. (Crick and Watson)

The allusion that she was not recognized is a bunch of feminist BS..

175 posted on 12/28/2005 5:58:01 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: editor-surveyor

You posted: "Your stubborn ignorance transcends my patience (yes, I know, patience is a virtue, but do pigs wear pearls?)"

Reply:
I am not into dietary laws about pork, but I do recall
Proverbs: 26:5. "Answer a fool according to his folly."

A contradiction is in Proverbs 26:4. "Answer NOT a fool according to his folly."

At least one of us is violating Scriptural injunctions. Maybe me.


176 posted on 12/28/2005 5:58:43 PM PST by thomaswest (the whole Communist Humanist Secularist Evolutionist plot to fluoridate the water supply)
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To: Dan(9698)
How about an evaluation of what Darwin said as quoted in post 116?

He started a Religeon of psudo science. Professors are preaching it still.

Post 116
The probability is 1.0 IF you don't rule out things, such as intelligent design. Your proposition is, as I assume you know, a tautology.

No, I have no trouble with the world being complex. I just find it impossible to explain by Darwin's rules.

That isn't a tautology! What do you mean? And a Religeon of psudo science? That's not a religion. Don't understand what you mean?

177 posted on 12/28/2005 6:01:43 PM PST by phantomworker (I trust my intuition and speak my truth... Don't accuse me of your imagination!)
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To: phantomworker
what Darwin said as quoted in post 116?

Sorry, wrong reference. It should be post 119

178 posted on 12/28/2005 6:05:26 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: Logophile
One of the problems with discussions such as the present one is that the parties do not take the trouble to provide a clear and unambiguous statement of what they mean by the "Second Law."

I'll take "Guns" for 100, Alex..

179 posted on 12/28/2005 6:05:39 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach

You posted: "It's mathematically impossible for bees to fly..
Problem is, we haven't found a way to tell them, so they just keep buzzin' along.."

Reply:
If you were a bit more informed, you would know that the tale refers to bumblebees, not all bees.

And you make my point perfectly. Predictions that evolution could not have occurred, predictions that bumblebees cannot fly, predictions that the mammalian immune system could not exist, etc., etc. are all equally disproved by the evidence. It is an observable fact that evolution has occurred; it is a theory as to how and why this came about.


180 posted on 12/28/2005 6:05:53 PM PST by thomaswest (the whole Communist Humanist Secularist Evolutionist plot to fluoridate the water supply)
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