Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[Fester Chugabrew]

It takes a lot of faith to believe in self-organizing matter. Blind faith, that is.

[MineralMan]

Can't help myself. The next time I make a typo, please feel free to ridicule me. I enjoy having errors I make exposed. Glad you found it amusing!

[eleni121]

Your pet Darwin was a fraud! Here is love note to marx from your pet:

Dear Sir:
I thank you for the honour which you have done me by sending me your great work on Capital; & I heartily wish that I was more worthy to receive it, by understanding more of the deep and important subject of political Economy. Though our studies have been so different, I believe that we both earnestly desire the extension of Knowledge, & that this is in the long run sure to add to the happiness of Mankind.
I remain, Dear Sir
Yours faithfully,
Charles Darwin
Letter from Charles Darwin to Karl Marx
October, 1873

[furball4paws]

"I hope that you are not implying that God looks like pond scum!"

He certainly doesn't look like me. But if did look like pond scum, he'd be a lot more interesting :-)

[staytrue]

Evolution is the only government approved religion.

I don't see prayer sessions for evolution. I don't "tithing" either. I don't see animal sacrifice, turning toward Mecca to pray, priests, cardinals, etc.

I don't see where priests of evolution granting marriages.

You are very mistaken here.

[bobdsmith]

This includes evolution's crowning achievement, man

I hate to point out the obvious, but I will, in the form of a question:

Given a massive global catastrophy such as a giant meteor collision or a nuclear war, which is more likely to survive?

a) man

b) termites

Considering the answer to that question, what is really evolution's crowning achievement?

[narby]

Nah, I think we're just dealing with people who really don't understand what they're arguing in favor of.

I don't think you understand the evolution you argue against. Who started this "complexity" argument this afternoon. Whomever it was (Fester?) doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Protagoras]

Draw your own conclusions regarding which religions I consider to be bogus.

That's a less than artful dodge. You call one bogus, which I assume means;

bo·gus ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgs) adj.
Counterfeit or fake; not genuine: bogus money; bogus tasks

Therefore, you think some are not genuine.

So some are genuine? Which ones?

Your beliefs are a religion, and you concider all others to be bogus.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" I must assume you are a child..."

No, are you? Because all I have done is ask for evidence for your sweeping statements.

"What I have is over a century of history, and a lifetime of learning. Do you want me to provide evidence that the sky is blue? Or that grass is green? Or that the American media is liberal? Or that things fall down when you let them go?"

No, just evidence supporting your claim that every economist followed Marx and didn't allow any dissent, and that every psychologist followed Freud and didn't allow any dissent.

"You want evidence that virtually every economics department in this US, Canada, Britain, eastern and western Europe was dominated by Marxists for most of the 20th century?"

Now you've changed your claim. Your retreat is noted.

" Nevertheless, this is precisely the caliber of reasoning I have come to expect from Marxists/Freudians/Darwinists."

And your inability to back your claims is exactly what I have come to expect from a creationist.

[RunningWolf]

touche placemarker

[Dimensio]

My source is the theory of evolution.

So where does the theory of evolution require a constant increase in "complexity"?

[highball]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. That having been said....

[going further out on the legal limb]: While it is true they lied their asses off in court under oath, the trouble is you'd need evidence they lied during their deliberations on the ID policy as School Board memebers to make that argument. IOW, I don't know that showing they lied in court, post hoc, can be used to conclude bad-faith in their deliberations....

OTOH, if evidence is available to show that NOT only were they engaging in bad faith on the witness stand, BUT ALSO during their deliberation of the ID policy, you might well be on to something....

They demonstrated that they hid their true intentions during the initial process. They lied about the real reason they wanted to introduce ID into the curriculum. They tried to hide the source of the money to buy the creationist books for the school.

There is plenty of evidence showing that they acted in bad faith. I only hope that that's the standard required to make them financially responsible for the bills they incurred in this fraud.

[orionblamblam]

> Do you bow down to Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny too?

Naw. Leave that to those who believe in the supernatural and who feel so weak that they need to worship something.

[Protagoras]

Actually Ned, you are wrong again.

And it isn't me who is confused. You seem totally at sea. Debating yourself,,and losing,,LOL.

[benjibrowder]

Your right, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson. But still, whatever they gathered cannot be proven. And I will shut up, for now. You also didn't answer my question about anisotrophic the anisotrophic nature, only saying that it PROVES something. Nothing in a theory can be proven, unless you were able to reproduce it (the big bang). If it were, I would love to be there and see it (quite honestly).

[furball4paws]

"If a salmon evolved into a catfish, that would be speciation"

As good as catfish can be, that would be a gastronomic calamity of major proportions.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Darwin never read any Marx. Marx sent him the book, and Darwin sent him a thank you note, in the usual Victorian florid style. The book was still in his library, uncut.

[highball]

Do you want me to provide evidence that the sky is blue? Or that grass is green? Or that the American media is liberal? Or that things fall down when you let them go?

Funny you should mention that one - shall we teach alternatives to gravitational theory as well?

That's one of those little theories that creationists don't seem to mind. Similarly, I don't know a single creationist who has a problem with germ theory. Wonder why that is?

[narby]

Am I being dishonest in asserting the judge espouses wholly atheistic science and expects the same to be the only science allowed in public schools?

Fester why do have this need for God in science class? Sure the judge espouses wholly atheistic, meaning, no mention of God, in science class. What's wrong with that?

Do you need God in gym class? How about math, do they bring up God much there?

No. Therefore math is an "athiestic" class subject. So what?

[MineralMan]

"I'm saying that a highly complex system is more likely to exist because of deliberate action by an intelligent being than by chance."

Not really. Consider a dodecahedral crystal of garnet. It's quite complex, yet, it will form itself with no assistance from any deity. And that is only one of many possible forms a garnet crystal can take. Many other minerals can form in up to hundreds of different morphologies, again, without the influence of anything other than temperature and surrounding minerals in the solution.

We won't even discuss more complex crystals that occur in nature. You might look at the multiply-twinned crystals of water you find in snowflakes. They are so complex that it is very unlikely any two will be alike.

Now, Those are a simple chemical compounds, so imagine what might occur with something as complex as DNA. You're grasping at straws here, and your arguments are easily refuted.