Posted on 12/17/2005 8:39:05 AM PST by Mr. Blonde
HE MADE millions as a businessman, saved the scandal-plagued 2002 Winter Olympics, appeals to social conservatives, is liked by moderates, boasts chiselled good looks and has been a successful Republican governor in one of America’s most liberal states. In Mitt Romney, the Massachusetts Governor who all but threw his hat into the 2008 presidential race yesterday, Republicans have the almost perfect candidate. Except for one potential problem: Mr Romney is a Mormon.
After announcing that he would not be seeking a second term as Massachusetts governor, a widely anticipated move that clears the way for a 2008 White House bid, Mr Romney implicitly posed a fascinating political question: can a Mormon win enough votes to become President of the United States?
Mr Romney, whom analysts on both sides of the political divide say will be a serious contender in 2008, was elected governor of Massachusetts — one of the bluest of Democrat blue states — as a social moderate. In the past year, however, he has changed his stance on social issues important to religious conservatives, the base of the Republican Party that wields enormous influence in the Republican primary race. Mr Romney once said that abortion should be “safe and legal”, but now opposes it. He denounced the decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court to legalise gay marriage. Calling himself a “red speck in a blue state”, he has emphasised socially conservative positions on the death penalty, stem-cell research and birth control.
But Manuel Miranda, head of the Third Branch Conference, an alliance of conservative groups, said that many evangelicals view Mormonism — the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints — as a cult. Mr Miranda said that in 2000 he worked for Orrin Hatch, the Utah senator and a Mormon, during his unsuccessful bid for the Republican nomination. “Hatch had a poll done. He found that over 60 per cent of Americans would not vote for a Mormon.”
Richard Cizik, of the National Association of Evangelicals, said that Mormons were not Christians, and that profound doctrinal divisions would shape reactions to Mr Romney as a candidate for the White House. The view among evangelicals might change if Mr Romney’s main opponent is Rudy Giuliani, the former New York Mayor, who is socially moderate and supports abortion.
Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster, believes that Mr Romney’s religion will not be a significant issue. His biggest problem, Mr Luntz said, is that he comes from Massachusetts. Although he balanced the state’s budget, lowered taxes and improved education, “the last time Massachusetts produced a Republican candidate was never”.
Mr Romney may also face the charge of being a “flip-flopper” — an accusation that did so much damage to the last presidential candidate from Massachusetts with impossibly thick hair: John Kerry.
The last president to come from Massachusetts was John Kennedy, who successfully overcame concerns about being the first Roman Catholic in the White House.
Mr Romney can also take encouragement from the experience of his Mormon father, George Romney, who was Governor of Michigan. His 1968 presidential bid imploded after he said that he had been “brainwashed” into supporting the Vietnam War. “But until then,” Steve Hess, of the Brookings Institution, said, “there was no question he could have been elected.”
His pro-life "conversion" seems a little too convenient.
I ain't bitin' unless he comes out (for the cause of life) swingin'.
You mean the ones with the Free Masonry symbols, or did they change that when the truth about the Free Masonry influence on Joseph Smith's imagination was exposed?
Maybe JCEccles can answer that question.
Every Mormon I've ever met has been a wonderful person.
That was the basic thrust of the South Park episode; the interesting conundrum that despite the origins of Mormonism and the credibility of Joseph Smith being only slightly less silly than, say, Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard, it does seem to work, and Mormons generally seem pretty happy, productive, and well adjusted relative to the general population.
No that's not what "isolate its members" means. It's a reference to a cult's tendency to encourage new inductees to sever ties with non-cult members.
Not physical isolation, social isolation.
Do you wear a wedding ring? If you are Catholic, do you wear a scapular or keep a rosarie in your pocket? Have you seen Jews who wear tefillin or yarmulka?
LDS garments have a similar symbolic function. Apart from a physical expression and reminder of inward faith and fidelity, there is nothing magical about it.
It's a real problem. When, for instance, is it time for family members to take extreme action or for the authorities to step in?
Dear rlmorel,
"I will say this about Romney-he seems to me to be a stand-up guy. He is not afraid to state what he believes, and when he says he is going to do something, he has done it (or at least tried to do it against political opposition)"
Then you believe that his "conversion" on the issue of abortion is genuine, and not just about trying to go from winning in Massachusetts to winning as a Republican in a presidential election?
Thanks.
sitetest
I think that Romney would make a great president.
He has not changed his views on controversial positions despite what the media alleges. He is simply pragmatic when it comes to dealing with his constituency.
That is quite unlike professional politicians who will not even vote on major issues but rather unjustly have courts creating new "rights" and laws.
Oh, and the media around here has been brutal when it comes to dealing with him. Probably the Mormon factor because I can think of no other reason.
Perhaps. It may be a conversion for political reasons. There are a lot of reasons people change their minds about things, and to someone living in the political arena, nearly every decision or viewpoint is affected, I would think.
Do you think that someone is ever allowed to change their position on an issue?
Is it possible (and I stress *possible*) that in his move to a presidential stage, he was required to reexamine his views in greater depth or from a different perspective, and decided he had been wrong?
I don't know about a mormon but we don't need a Rino like Romney as president.
Dear rlmorel,
"Do you think that someone is ever allowed to change their position on an issue?"
Sure I do. I welcome all true conversions from the cause of death to the cause of life.
I just have doubts that Mr. Romney's conversion is real.
"Is it possible (and I stress *possible*) that in his move to a presidential stage, he was required to reexamine his views in greater depth or from a different perspective, and decided he had been wrong?"
It's possible. I just don't see any evidence for it.
Like I said, if he comes out swinging for the cause of life, there is a very good chance I'll back him. Including with early donations.
But if this is just to "punch the ticket" to get the Republican nomination, he can stick it where the sun don't shine. And it's on him to prove the absolute sincerity of his conversion. Otherwise, I ain't buyin'.
A lot of us pro-lifers wonder which "pro-life" politicians are really conviction pro-lifers, and which are just telling us what they want to hear, while they run off and nominate folks like Mr. Souter and Miss Miers.
sitetest
The way the LDS church has been attacked on this thread, and
the way you have handled these speaks volumes.A good spiritual
person you are with out the hate others seem to have.
Well no .... they still think that Jesus is the spirtual brother of Lucifer (known as Satan) ...
"...Oh, and the media around here has been brutal when it comes to dealing with him. Probably the Mormon factor because I can think of no other reason..."
I think the animus some evidently feel towards him (both in the media and on forums like this) is directly aimed at his Mormonism.
They built a Mormon temple in a town near here (Belmont, MA), and before it was "blessed" they opened it up to tours to the public. My wife and I decided to go see what it was like, since the only other way we would ever see the inside of one is not only to become Mormons (highly unlikely) but there are only five of these structures in the country, and we aren't going to travel to look at one. Apparently, once "blessed", non-Mormons cannot enter.
The tour was extraordinarily well organized and run like a military operation. Bussed from off-site, had shoe covers placed over our shoes in an assembly line fashion by volunteers, etc. It was very impressive, but to non-Mormons, very strange. They let us see everything, changing rooms, baptismal font, the "heaven room", the mirrored rooms and so on. A beautiful facility. But very odd. The different rooms representing the different levels of heaven were a foreign concept. And there were these really cheesy looking paintings...the same four or five paintings of poor quality you kept seeing in various places, reminded you of going into a Chinese restaurant and seeing the placemats and Fu-Manchu drink glasses, and thinking all Chinese restaurants buying them from the same place...
Afterwards, you got refreshments and got to talk to Mormons about their religion, and my wife and I latched onto a young guy...so we asked him all kinds of questions about his religion, family, what was expected of him, and so on. It was kind of funny, I don't think he was giving us the textbook answers (he told us about his evangelizing experience, how it was organized and set up, that kind of thing)
When we asked if the refreshment session was for recruiting purposes, he kind of said something to the effect of "Everyone in every religion who is passionate about their faith is always going to try to convert others to their point of view, but...no...he wasn't trying to recruit. Just answered our questons...:)
My wife and I didn't feel any more put off by them than we would by a close examination of the religions of Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists or Muslims.
I understand your point of view. And from your tagline, I can see that is your foremost issue of importance.
To others, his stand on National Defense or some other issue may trump the issue of abortion, even if they disagree with him.
Who the hell cares what the guy believes (although I'd be leery of a Scientologist or Muslim candidate)? Yeah, to me, Mormons have an odd set of beliefs, but whatever... they are good, solid citizens with a strong belief in family. I'd vote for Mitt in a heartbeat. He's a polished speaker, he's done well in the business world, and he's a strong fiscal conservative.
As a Catholic, I do not consider the LDS Church a valid expression of Christianity. However, I won't tolerate Mormon-bashing. While I disagree with their religion, most Mormons are moral, family-oriented, and conservative people -- excellent allies in the Culture Wars. They are on The Team. I would vote for a Mormon of good character in a heartbeat.
I am a Catholic, and I feel the same way you do. Well said.
prod bump here
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