Posted on 12/17/2005 8:39:05 AM PST by Mr. Blonde
HE MADE millions as a businessman, saved the scandal-plagued 2002 Winter Olympics, appeals to social conservatives, is liked by moderates, boasts chiselled good looks and has been a successful Republican governor in one of America’s most liberal states. In Mitt Romney, the Massachusetts Governor who all but threw his hat into the 2008 presidential race yesterday, Republicans have the almost perfect candidate. Except for one potential problem: Mr Romney is a Mormon.
After announcing that he would not be seeking a second term as Massachusetts governor, a widely anticipated move that clears the way for a 2008 White House bid, Mr Romney implicitly posed a fascinating political question: can a Mormon win enough votes to become President of the United States?
Mr Romney, whom analysts on both sides of the political divide say will be a serious contender in 2008, was elected governor of Massachusetts — one of the bluest of Democrat blue states — as a social moderate. In the past year, however, he has changed his stance on social issues important to religious conservatives, the base of the Republican Party that wields enormous influence in the Republican primary race. Mr Romney once said that abortion should be “safe and legal”, but now opposes it. He denounced the decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court to legalise gay marriage. Calling himself a “red speck in a blue state”, he has emphasised socially conservative positions on the death penalty, stem-cell research and birth control.
But Manuel Miranda, head of the Third Branch Conference, an alliance of conservative groups, said that many evangelicals view Mormonism — the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints — as a cult. Mr Miranda said that in 2000 he worked for Orrin Hatch, the Utah senator and a Mormon, during his unsuccessful bid for the Republican nomination. “Hatch had a poll done. He found that over 60 per cent of Americans would not vote for a Mormon.”
Richard Cizik, of the National Association of Evangelicals, said that Mormons were not Christians, and that profound doctrinal divisions would shape reactions to Mr Romney as a candidate for the White House. The view among evangelicals might change if Mr Romney’s main opponent is Rudy Giuliani, the former New York Mayor, who is socially moderate and supports abortion.
Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster, believes that Mr Romney’s religion will not be a significant issue. His biggest problem, Mr Luntz said, is that he comes from Massachusetts. Although he balanced the state’s budget, lowered taxes and improved education, “the last time Massachusetts produced a Republican candidate was never”.
Mr Romney may also face the charge of being a “flip-flopper” — an accusation that did so much damage to the last presidential candidate from Massachusetts with impossibly thick hair: John Kerry.
The last president to come from Massachusetts was John Kennedy, who successfully overcame concerns about being the first Roman Catholic in the White House.
Mr Romney can also take encouragement from the experience of his Mormon father, George Romney, who was Governor of Michigan. His 1968 presidential bid imploded after he said that he had been “brainwashed” into supporting the Vietnam War. “But until then,” Steve Hess, of the Brookings Institution, said, “there was no question he could have been elected.”
know better? know WHAT better?
My point was that if he were, hypothetically, out on bail, would you hire him?
And yes, I realize he never was out on bail, but many people charged with serious crimes, with overwhelming evidence against them, are freed on bail, so the situation could arise. Assuming you had a young son, if Michael Jackson invited him to his house, would you let him go? Of course not.
"“Hatch had a poll done. He found that over 60 per cent of Americans would not vote for a Mormon.”"
A Muslim or an atheist maybe. But a Mormon? I have no problem, and I say that as a Christian.
OK, let's take it to the next step. Let's assume there is a religious group that does strictly isolate its members from society because they believe that is what God wishes them to do.
How do we know they are wrong about God's intentions, other than by essentially saying "their religion is false, and mine is true"?
There are also extreme offshoots of mainstream Mormons...Under The Banner of Heaven is a book that talks about it in-depth.
The history of "American Religion" is fascinating. The Oneida colony, the Shakers, etc. And my personal favorite, Sister Aimee Semple McPherson. Americans tend to approach religion with the same aggressive attitude as technology.
One: the health and stability of the traditional family dictates the long term health and stability of the nation. Whatever corrodes and weakens the traditional family is to be avoided or minimized.
Two: each person is blessed with free agency, but with free agency comes personal responsibility and full acceptance of consequences. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."
Three: education, hard work, thrift, honesty, and industriousness are godly attributes. Becoming wealthy within those parameters is not a sin, but a powerful means of blessing others.
The individual knows best how to exercise true charity with the fruits of prosperity, the state is singularly ill-equipped to do the same efficiently or justly.
As for religion, the right to believe (or not to believe) is inviolable, and the state has a duty to protect that right against all assaults.
This list is my own, and I could expand upon it, but it will suffice for this post.
Mormons wear magical ('sacred') undergarments for protection from harm.
Not really surprising for a 'religion' that was founded by a treasure hunter.
OK, let's take it to the next step. Let's assume there is a religious group that does strictly isolate its members from society because they believe that is what God wishes them to do.
How do we know they are wrong about God's intentions, other than by essentially saying "their religion is false, and mine is true"?
Obviously, you can't know God's intent. But some belief systems can spiral into destructive behavior. Some cults use cohersive means to recruit and keep members.
All this is a very tough call, because as Americans we like to leave other religions alone.
i can prove that mormonism is a fase religion to any reasonable person by asking a mormon three simple question. why don't you give them a try?
1. Was God once a man?
2. Did god create man?
3. If the answer to both questions above is 'yes', and every Mormon i have asked has answered 'yes, what being/force/power created the first man that became the first God, and why is that being force/power not God?
An answer of "God has not chosen to reaveal that to us" is unacceptable.
Good luck!
Not unless he rebukes the Golden Salamander scriptures. These guys are no better than the Branch Davidians.
YES.....and Im not a fan of Romney.
The Amish really do not like or promote the heavy tourism of people gawking at them in places like Lancaster County, and they don't have anything to do with a lot of the touristy "see Amish life" places and shops on the main roads; some make and sell furniture off the beaten path, some of it to tourists, but almost no actual Amish really make their living off tourism.
But they're primarily farmers and they'd be quite pleased, I suspect, if another tourist never set foot in Lancaster County. And they're not really all that cut off from day-to-day society. You'll see them in stores, taking fishing charters in the ocean or fishing off piers in Delaware (which they're really big on for some reason).
Not if the media is pushing him.
Every Christian I know will tell me that God was once a man too. Does that make all of Christianity false?
The idea that any religion on the planet is PROVABLY false or true is about the funniest thing I've ever heard.
I've always had the mental image of some space aliens landing their saucer and people coming up to them trying to prove their particular brand of religion is the correct one.
Don't get me wrong: there are some groups that I would call cults, that do engage in destructive behavior, and in which completely cynical cult leaders consciously exploit and manipulate members.
I had never met a Mormon before I made a trip two years ago to Idaho Falls. I worked with a lot of Mormons on that business trip and everyone was great. I was impressed with the quality of people, even though I'll have to disagree with their general take on Christianity.
I didn't know that about the Amish and fishing. Thanks!
I always viewed them like Hassids, cut off from the larger society except for commerce.
Well, like so many other things, there is more than one definition of a cult. There is the mind-control definition given in an earlier link (e.g., Jim Jones), but this is not the meaning of cult an Evangelical Christian is applying to Mormonism. In this definition a cult is seen as a religious group that does not adhere to orthodox Christianity in the following ways:
1. Jesus Christ as a person of the Triune God. Fully God and fully man. Born of a virgin, sinless, dying on the cross for the sins of the world, resurrected after 3 days, ascended into Heaven, and coming again.
2. The Holy Spirit as a person of the Triune God. Convicting the world of sin and pointing them to salvation through Jesus Christ.
3. People are saved by grace through their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
The group may say that they hold these beliefs, but a closer discussion reveals that they are not in agreement with orthodox Chrisitianity. Note that with all the disagreement between Evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics, an Evangelical Christian does not disagree with a Roman Catholic with regard to these essentials of the faith.
Of course, any group that is called a cult based on the above beliefs is free to refer to those who hold the beliefs as a cult. I believe that in Mormonism, the Chrisitianity extant at the time of Joseph Smith was viewed as apostate by the Mormons.
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