LIVE THREAD - UPDATE: TOOKIE WILLIAMS EXECUTED

Fox news | Dec 12, 2005

[commish]

Gov. Shwarzeneggar expected to make announcement on Tookie Williams Execution Clemency shortly according to Fox News.

[John W]

Personally,I choose "gain all" or "status quo" over "misery".

[Clock King]

No one's gonna riot over this. Geesh, none of you understand where riots come from and why.

[Semper Paratus]

I would peg the over/under of the thread post count by the 'announcement' at 500.

[GasBagTeddy]

Disco Inferno is my choice.

[longtermmemmory]

tookie will be the next "free mandella" t-shirt.

He will eventually run agains Ahrnold.

[CounterCounterCulture]

3 tires dead. Perp surrenders. Down on ground.

Let's get back to Ooh-ooh-aah-aah-Tookie-Tookie.

[MineralMan]

"I would also feel horrible if I had to take a life. Yes, it would be your responsibility, but nevertheless, you have the power but would not give it to 40 million citizens in California collectively. That is what I don't get. You have the power but deny it to others, even after a murder is committed. At least we, as the state, are putting to death a murderer. You would feel badly, but you still put to death someone before he did physical harm. There is the paradox. It's okay for you to determine time, method, and circumstances, but not for the state."

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You're missing one thing, here: immediacy. I do grant the state the right to kill someone. Law enforcement does it all the time...in immediate situations. Sometimes they're justified. Sometimes it's later determined that they're not. However, it is only in immediate situations where deadly force is allowed.

Same thing here. Once a murder has taken place and time has passed, the immediacy is gone. At that point, the situation changes dramatically. We have other recourse for punishment of acts that have taken place.

This is why cops are often given a walk when they act wrongly in an immediate situation. It IS possible for them to make a mistake and wrongly use deadly force, but we give them a pass many times, due to the immediacy.

That's the difference. To deliberately decide to take someone's life when no immediate situation requires it is where I draw my ethical line. Others may disagree, and that's fine. As I said, I'm not picketing any executions, despite my disagreement with them. If that's the law, then I will respect it. If given an opportunity to vote against the death penalty, I will.

[isrul]

You are so on the money with that assessment.

[conservativebabe]

The only thing interesting about that chase was seeing the cops do their truly dangerous jobs at the end.

[JerseyDvl]

I've got $20.00 on over 500...damn the suspense is killing me.
Oops, wrong choice of words!

[WV Mountain Mama]

"after the streets are quieter"

Is that a joke? ;) I expect full riots if the announcement is made that clemency was denied. It will be turned into a race issue and everyone will forget that there were 4 murdered victims at his hands. He is a founding member of a street gang (Crips?). How many people have been murdered by the gang, by the extension of his hand? That will also be forgotten. It will be turned into a very big, ugly race war. imo, sadly.

[FEARED MUTATION]

Arnold will not only deny clemency but announce that he has decided to carry out the execution himself - using his fists.

Naw, he'll send in Chuck Norris to kill Tookie with a roundhouse kick.

[add925]

tookie will be the next "free mandella" t-shirt.

The Lib playbook never changes....unfortunately for them.

[commish]

I love Fox News. They announce that the announcement is coming shortly all excited, so I started this thing. Thread is up to 350+ and I have gone to a work meeting and come back and still nothing!! typical.

[No Blue States]

"No one's gonna riot over this. Geesh, none of you understand where riots come from and why."

By all means educate us.

[Chena]

No one's gonna riot over this. Geesh, none of you understand where riots come from and why.

Interesting comment, Clock King. You believe that there will NOT be riots if the Governor does NOT give Tookie clemency?

[Willie Green]

I thought that if the thumb went inside the fist, that meant to finish the vanquished fighter.

No, I'm pretty sure that one meant that the emperor was leaving the colliseum to attend an orgy.

[Niuhuru]

" I do not grant any human being the right to decide when another human will die."

In all honesty, Tookie was more than happy to decide when that store clerk and that Asian family were going to die. Just desserts.

[Richard Kimball]

But on that topic, why on earth would you burn down your neighborhood as seems to happen in cases like this?

You can't assume that everyone has the same motivations that you do. You probably want a good life, think a little bit ahead, save money, try to keep your house up. The rioters want to do what feels good right now. They don't think a half hour ahead. If they want to burn down a house, it's little to them that there will be a burned down house in their neighborhood tomorrow. They're not upset about Tookie getting executed, this is just a chance to go out and tear stuff up, steal, rape and beat the crap out of people. They do it because they like doing it.

[MineralMan]

"Then what of Romans 13:4 and Revelation 13:10?

"But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for [the state] beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

"... he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword...""

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My friend, my ethics are not biblically-based. If you'll note my tagline, you'll see that I am an atheist. I don't use any scripture to justify my personal beliefs and ethics.