Posted on 12/12/2005 10:45:34 AM PST by commish
Gov. Shwarzeneggar expected to make announcement on Tookie Williams Execution Clemency shortly according to Fox News.
Maybe they can show the Bloods getting ready to turn in their guns if clemency is granted. Or getting ready to riot if clemency is not granted.
For me, it's not glee that he's going to die, but rather joy that justice will finally be served.
Are you arguing that since Jesus preached forgiveness that no one on earth should be punished for their crimes in any way?
Maybe Roush should give him Kurt Busch's seat.
Arnold should pass out firearms to all small business owners with permission to shoot to kill any looters in the event of rioting over this matter.
Could be. I would not want to be a white truck driver going through LA his afternoon in Arnold upholds his death sentence.
That's another good choice !!! Fox could even play your song durring this car chase thingee while we wait for Ahnold....
Tookie asks for mercy, yet he gave none to 4 innocent people. Hypocrite.
I would also feel horrible if I had to take a life. Yes, it would be your responsibility, but nevertheless, you have the power but would not give it to 40 million citizens in California collectively. That is what I don't get. You have the power but deny it to others, even after a murder is committed. At least we, as the state, are putting to death a murderer. You would feel badly, but you still put to death someone before he did physical harm. There is the paradox. It's okay for you to determine time, method, and circumstances, but not for the state.
Here is the DA's file on Tookie:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1530932/posts
Excellent point. I'm kind of surprised that I haven't heard that point mentioned more often.
Ummm..I think Jesus abrogated that one.
Confess or die.
And for VERY sound reasons. In fact, Rome is out-of-line on this issue. Out-of line with history, Christian teaching, and even the ancient teachings of Mosaic Law which form the roots of Christian doctrine and civil justice. St. Paul himself teaches the fear and respect of civil authorities saying, "for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." This is the very epitome of capital punishment, and Paul, notably, does NOT take opportunity to condemn it but, rather, to admonish that we regard the civil authority with due respect and be willfully subject to it, if for no other reason, out of fear of the sword.
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.Capital punishment is a consequence that MUST be available to the courts in order for any society to have a sufficient system of justice. When such crimes are committed that the victims have been horribly injusticed and, having been slain, are no longer able to speak for themselves, it is a perversion for anyone to presume to offer forgiveness on their behalf. Family members and friends yet living may choose to forgive a perpetrator for the pain caused them personally, but only the dead may speak for themselves. Since they cannot, this having been guaranteed by the perpetrator himself, their silence ought be his condemnation and his consequence ought rightly be death.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Romans 13:1-4 KJV
Without threat of such consequence, what justice is there for the slain? What vile and backhanded glory do we bestow upon perpetrators of deadly violence if we cannot enact the most full and complete Earthly justice of which we are capable; to demand from them their very lives? The elimination of capital punishment is the castration of all human justice and a preverse ovffering of forgiveness; presuming to speak for the slain that which the slain have not spoken.
And do not begin to say to me, "Oh, but do you not know that Jesus taught us to forgive?" for surely I have know these things from my youth, but to assert that Jesus teaching in this regard is applicable at this juncture is a perversion of his teaching and of justice; both at once. Jesus truly taught that we ought forgive, but he speaks of we who are yet alive offering forgiveness, each for the wrong done to us. Never does Jesus teach that we have the right or the standing before God to presume to forgive on behalf of the dead; far less so they who have been unjustly and violently slain. The dead may speak to God for themselves and grant forgiveness if they will, but that forgiveness does NOT extend to the life of the perpetrator still living on Earth, nor can we have any assurance that such forgiveness has even been offered, for the dead are consigned to the silence of the grave, and this by the hand of their murderer, who now seeks forgiveness. How absurd, then, for anyone, whether a man, or even an angel from Heaven, to interfere with the machinations of justice and presume to bring words of forgiveness from beyond the grave! As if the dead had spoken and this messenger had come to deliver their message.
Also, do not say to me, "But Jesus has given forgiveness to all on the cross, and who are we to put a man to death and, in so doing, cut him off eternally from receipt of that divine grace?" You ought know as well as I that each must settle his own account before God, and that it is appointed once for a man to die and then Judgment. If a man will not make his peace at the threshold of the gas chamber, then his hour is passed and he damns himself, having chosen his own road to Hell. The forgivenss offered at the cross is available all the time, and a man may apprehend it at the Spirit's slightest nudge. But the soul that resists, rebels and rejects; with that soul will the Sprit not continually strive. There will come the day when that soul shall be relinquished to it's own devices; the grace of God having been contemptibly and forcibly refused.
Dread of the power of government to exact the fullest measure of justice is the single thread that binds up the fabric of civil society. Loose that thread and all of society begins to unravel. For the rejection of that power renders the civil government the more impotent to adequately preserve peace and order among the governed, and renders the government a thing the less fearsome and, thus, the less to be respected as having the power and the will to uphold justice. A government that is "nice" will soon be no government at all, but wil descend into violent anarchy.
Thus, capital punishment MUST necessarily be a mode of punishment available to a complete and healthy system of justice.
Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. I think Jesus said that.
Thanks for the whispering kind words, my friend. You have FReepmail.
A message to Arnold
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1538548/posts
Unless the expert is Darrell Waltrip, I'm not interested
Boogity Boogity Boogity!!!
If tookie gets clemency does that mean he remains in prison for life? Anyone know?
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