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Israelis to be allowed euthanasia by machine
Telegraph ^ | 12/7/5 | Tim Butcher

Posted on 12/07/2005 7:20:30 PM PST by Crackingham

Machines will perform euthanasia on terminally ill patients in Israel under legislation devised not to offend Jewish law, which forbids people taking human life. A special timer will be fitted to a patient's respirator which will sound an alarm 12 hours before turning it off.

Normally, carers would override the alarm and keep the respirator turned on but, if various stringent conditions are met, including the giving of consent by the patient or legal guardian, the alarm would not be overridden. Similar timing devices, known as Sabbath clocks, are used in the homes of orthodox Jews so that light switches and electrical devices can be turned on during the Sabbath without offending religious strictures.

Parliamentarians reached a solution after discussions with a 58-member panel of medical, religious and philosophical experts.

"The point was that it is wrong, under Jewish law, for a person's life to be taken by a person but, for a machine, it is acceptable," a parliamentary spokesman said. "A man would not be able to shorten human life but a machine can."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; israel; judaism; moralabsolutes; strainingthegnat
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To: 2Jedismom; Alouette; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; A Jovial Cad; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; adam_az; ...
The "timer" thing does make it a little strange to me ---especially since a dying person should be hand-fast and surrounded and accompanied by the prayers and care of his family and friends, not just left there to die like a bug in a bug-bombed kitchen--

But I didn't comment on it because it seemed like one of those distinctively Orthodox-Jewish principles that wouldn't make sense to me as a non-Jew.

Does somebody who knows more want to explain it for us?

41 posted on 12/08/2005 11:33:16 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (L'Chaim)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Ohhhhh! I think I figured it out!

The machine is set so that you must actively keep the machine running. Turning off the machine is different from allowing it to shut off on it's own.

Maybe that's it?


42 posted on 12/08/2005 11:33:34 AM PST by 2Jedismom (Expect me when you see me!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Ok...I really think I got it.

It's an active/passive thing. You actively set the machine up, then actively keep it running, then passively stop re-setting it when the decision is made to end life support. Twelve hours later, possibly with family and friends around, *the machine* shuts down.


43 posted on 12/08/2005 11:46:19 AM PST by 2Jedismom (Expect me when you see me!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But I didn't comment on it because it seemed like one of those distinctively Orthodox-Jewish principles that wouldn't make sense to me as a non-Jew.

It doesn't make sense to me as a (admittedly non-Orthodox) Jew. I don't think G-d is fooled my technicalities.

44 posted on 12/08/2005 11:56:25 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: Right Wing Assault
I imagine the Amish would have to use a battery-powered suicide machine.

Hand-cranked. Or drawn by oxen.

45 posted on 12/08/2005 11:57:45 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The articles below discuss the issue. It's worth remembering that the recently passed law applies only to truely terminal patients. Even under those circumstances, in the face of the patients directive, termination of life support would be problematical for some people. I can only assume the intent of the machine is to spare a caregiver from the physical necessity of "pulling the plug".

Being human-What Jewish law has to say about the Terry Schiavo case.

The Terri Schiavo Case: Related Ethical Delemias (Jewish Perspective)

Should Terri Schiavo Live or Die? (According to Jewish Teaching)

46 posted on 12/08/2005 12:21:32 PM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes, a bioethicist is a PR specialist paid by hospitals to invent lies that justify whatever the hospitals want to do.

Needless to say, these folks don't spend much time studying the Ten Commandments or traditional moral literature during their professional training.

I am fortunate to have several doctors at the moment whom I trust. But I would not want to go into the hospital without a family member to back me up and keep an eye out for me.


47 posted on 12/08/2005 1:47:10 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I hope you're right that in the actual legislation "neither active euthanasia nor the termination of nutrition would be permitted" and that the news reporter isn't getting the distinction.


48 posted on 12/08/2005 3:05:23 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal
From the Jerusalem Post

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475695637&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"If requested in a living will or by a person chosen to decide on his behalf, a terminally ill patient who is over the age of 17 could ask that his life not be extended by artificial means.

The withholding of nutrition and active euthanasia would not be permitted because they violate Halacha... "

To which I say, "Thank God for Halacha."

49 posted on 12/08/2005 4:01:00 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (L'Chaim)
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To: fat city; amdgmary; 8mmMauser; tutstar
Somebody has to activate the machine.

back to the drawing board

50 posted on 12/09/2005 7:25:26 PM PST by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

South Florida is full of Jewish followers. We could sure use some of that Halacha in Florida. Florida is still The Starvation State.


51 posted on 12/09/2005 7:29:59 PM PST by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: Crackingham

52 posted on 12/09/2005 7:34:40 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Vote Democrat--it's Easier than Getting a Job.)
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To: floriduh voter; Crackingham
Pinged from Terri November Dailies

8mm

53 posted on 12/10/2005 6:09:15 AM PST by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: neverdem

ping


54 posted on 12/11/2005 5:54:23 PM PST by Born Conservative (Chronic Positivity: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jsher/)
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To: fat city
"Yeah, this will fool God. Like Amish with phones in their barns."

Yeah, fooling God is one of mankind's eternal quests. That, and finding ways to feel absolved of all responsibility for actions. This is an example of both.
55 posted on 12/11/2005 9:51:12 PM PST by Wampus SC (Serf City here we come!)
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To: Wampus SC

I concur. The Orthodox and their light timers are as guilty of misinterpretation as any, simply because the timer violates the spirit of the tenet they claim to be upholding: to wit, electricity doesn't come from a hole in the wall, there are people ON DUTY in most powerplants and every major distribution centre 24/7. They're not there attending synagogue on the Sabbath, they're WORKING!

To use someone else's work product from Sabbath day work, or cause them to work on the Sabbath, is forbidden under the strict interpretation of most other biblical edicts (kosher eg) I've seen from the Orthodox.

Then again, I'm not an Orthodox Rabbi, so I am ignorant as to their reasoning around their own rules.


56 posted on 12/11/2005 11:14:26 PM PST by Don W (Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then you realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.)
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To: Don W
The theology of turning on lights on the Sabbath is something I won't get into. This is about turning off someone's life any day of the week. It seems weaselly to me, especially the part about intent. It's the old "I don't intend for this guy to die, I just intend to cut off his air" trick. Yeah, right.

This is what you get when professional medical so-called "ethicists" get involved. Job description of a professional ethicist: Make up BS excuses for the unconscionable.
57 posted on 12/12/2005 9:27:21 PM PST by Wampus SC (Serf City here we come!)
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To: Crackingham

Everything has its context. If readers here would like the facts on which to actually base comments, you are welcome to visit my Blog where I have written on this in several posts.

By the way, Wesley J. Smith, noted anti-euthanasia attorney and author, called the above Telegraph article "stupid" because it has misrepresented the Israeli law.

http://meiraonline.blogspot.com/2005/12/euthanasia-in-israel-part-3-know-facts.html

http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/2005/12/israel-not-doing-euthanasia-by-machine.html


58 posted on 12/29/2005 9:53:28 AM PST by Chana Meira
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