Posted on 12/01/2005 8:58:07 AM PST by tgambill
Kosovo: Clinton 'lied, people died'?
________________________________________ Posted: December 1, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2005 Laurence A. Elder The White House – finally – began pushing back against irresponsible charges that Bush "lied" to the American people in making the case for war.
The garrulous Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., made many "Bush lied" accusations: "There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January [2003] to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud." And Kennedy later intoned on the Senate floor, "Before the war, week after week after week after week, we were told lie after lie after lie after lie."
Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., said, "... [T]he administration intentionally misled the country into war." Anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan, speaking to the president in a TV ad, said, "You were wrong about the weapons of mass destruction. You were wrong about the link between Iraq and al-Qaida. You lied to us, and because of your lies, my son died." Question: If Bush "lied," did former President Clinton "lie" about Kosovo?
Clinton, in a March 24, 1999, Oval Office broadcast, explained his military action in Kosovo: We act to prevent a wider war, to defuse a powder keg at the heart of Europe, that has exploded twice before in this century with catastrophic results ... By acting now, we are upholding our values, protecting our interests and advancing the cause of peace ... Ending this tragedy is a moral imperative. It is also important to America's national interests ... Do our interests in Kosovo justify the dangers to our armed forces? ...
I am convinced that the dangers of acting are far outweighed by the dangers of not acting – dangerous to defenseless people and to our national interests ... I have a responsibility as president to deal with problems such as this before they do permanent harm to our national interests. America has a responsibility to stand with our allies when they are trying to save innocent lives and preserve peace, freedom and stability in Europe. That is what we are doing in Kosovo.
The former president called Kosovo a humanitarian crisis. The New York Times, on April 19, 1999, wrote: In San Francisco on Thursday, President Clinton said that the Serbs had displaced 'over a million Kosovars' and had killed and raped 'thousands upon thousands of them.' From interviews that journalists and relief workers have conducted with scores of refugees from Kosovo, there is no reason to doubt him. But at this point it is also impossible to prove that he is correct.
Actor-activist Mike Farrell, who opposes the Iraq War, nevertheless supported military action in Kosovo, stating:
I am in favor of an intervention ... I was in Rwanda shortly after the slaughter there. I was infuriated then – and am now – that the international community did not step in ... I know that the escalation of violence and violations of human rights in Kosovo have been going on for some time ... I reluctantly find myself supporting the notion that something needed to be done and that it is appropriate for us to act, and if this is the only way, so be it.
But what about Clinton's assertion of the displacement of "over a million Kosovars"? According to USA Today on July 1, 1999:
Many of the figures used by the Clinton administration and NATO to describe the wartime plight of Albanians in Kosovo now appear greatly exaggerated as allied forces take control of the province ... Instead of 100,000 ethnic Albanian men feared murdered by rampaging Serbs, officials now estimate that about 10,000 were killed. But is the 10,000 number accurate? The Orange County Register, in a Nov. 22, 1999, editorial, said:
Months after the bombing has ceased, United Nations and European Union investigations have bolstered what critics had argued: NATO's estimates of Serbian genocide against the Kosovars were greatly overblown. Many observers now think the inflated numbers simply were part of the U.S.-led propaganda effort to build support for the war.
The latest evidence suggests that fewer than 3,000 Kosovars were murdered – horrifying, yes, but not many more than the number of Serbs who were killed by NATO bombing attacks on Yugoslavia, roughly estimated between 3,000 and 5,000 soldiers and civilians. Does this mean that Clinton "lied, people died"? The intelligence turned out to be wrong, very wrong. Something like this always warrants a serious examination of intelligence failures. But intelligence failures, bad intelligence or failing to properly analyze the intelligence is a far cry from accusing a commander in chief of deliberately and intentionally misleading the American people.
Can we, perhaps, now drop the "Bush lied" nonsense, and pursue the business of winning the war against Islamo-fascism? Perhaps?
The number of Kosovars murdered by the Serbian Communists was estimated at 4,000 during the war. After dozens of mass graves were discovered in June 1999 — there were actually several hundred, that estimate jumped to 10,000. Nothing has refuted that estimate since then.
(See http://shr.aaas.org/kosovo/icty_report.pdf)
— Not yet actually, the authorities in Bosnia still manage to arrest terrorists before they can do any harm.
The bodies were likely brought up after Milosevic was overthrown. There is no footage or photography of bodies being dug up. The identity and autopsy reports are not made available - how they died, complete list of names of the identified, if they had KLA connections, etc. The people named and given ages, that I can find, are all grown men.
Even adding those recycled KLA to the bodies discovered in Kosovo (which included Serbs and Roma kidnapped by the KLA and Serb police and soldiers) you can't get much more than 4,000.
The UN announced a grave of 900 Serbs and Roma (who'd been kidnapped during the war) in Dragodan cemetery near Pristina, but then a day or so later (and likely due to pressure from their overseers and superiors) they had to retract and give a much smaller number.
Then there is the known fact that KLA killed Albanians who were loyal or worked for the Serbian government. NATO bombs killed over 80 Albanians traveling in a convoy, and scores more each time when it accidentally bombed Albanian encampments.
re#24 Well done. The complicit MSM has blood on its hands too. Oh well, what's the problem supporting the drug trafficking/arms smuggling/forced prostitution/Islamist KLA when it keeps a Democrat in office?
Semper FI.....thank you.....this post stirred up some discussion, I suspect....:)
bump
Thanks.....Hopp light is easy work, because of his pride and lack of facts. I believe that we are in a critical stage right now, and this info is beyond personal egos'. It's call world peace and a very dangerous effort to destroy our rights........
Let's keep the boat rocking....
Semper FI.
Tom
Zokie
:)) yes, so we shouldn't worry, silent night, holy? or holeeeee night.....:)) The government misinformation is massive about the wars we are in. Although, its a catch 22, we need to be after these extremist, Kosovo is the red headed step child.....We are allies with organized crime plain and simple and documented. Check out "The Brooklyn Connection".....it's better than Mary Poppins....
Tom
The big D stands tall this year bro! Favre got his ass handed to him yesterday!
You're real funny budalo!
You still have yet to be introduced to mark502inf, he's another member of the revisionist's club.
Peace will return when the Serbian Army liberates the Serbs (as well as many Albanians) in Kosovo.
The damage done by the Klintonistas must be udone.
yes..but, the situation is massive and the ones who are in control have a serious strangle hold and a planned agenda. The Albanians don't realize that they are also being strangled by their own people, under the disguise of nationalism and a promise of the Great Albania, finally. When actually, it is a move to extend the control of the organized crime and also, extending more control for the establishment of the New World Order. As exotic as that sounds, it is what the big picture is.....The Damage done by Klinton is massive.......and the torch is being carried in the Balkans I'm afraid.
Tom
There seems to be a serious problem of orientation for
U.S. Troops that arrive in Kosovo. The next series of
articles causes many questions to be raised concerning
what the U.S. Troops are told prior to deployment.
It's also obvious that their in-country briefing is
also missing proper perspective.....the articles are
obvious in their subject matter......
1. Serbian leaders warn of growing incidents in
Kosovo
Top Serbian leaders warned on Saturday that the
growing incidents against ethnic Serbs in Kosovo would
have serious consequences on Kosovo's future status
talks.
Kosovo Albanian majorities are increasing their
pressure against the Serb community by resorting to
"explosions, shootings and stoning of houses", said
Serbian President Boris Tadic in a statement.
Tadic said that the incidents were highly disturbing
for the Serbs in the province.
He appealed to international forces in Kosovo to be
more cautious and provide security for all citizens of
the Serbian breakaway province, under UN
administration since mid-1999.
Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica called on UN
envoy on Kosovo status talks, Martti Ahtisaari, to
comment on the upsurge of violence against the Serbs
in Kosovo.
"We must put an end to this violence against Serbs
once and for all, and this is the first obligation
that the international community must fulfill," said
Kostunica in a written statement.
In late November, Ahtisaari has launched the process
to define the future status for Kosovo by shuttling
among Balkan countries.
Direct talks between Belgrade and Pristina are
expected early next year.
Despite the growing number of incidents in Kosovo over
the past days, the UN mission in Kosovo (UNMIK)
spokesman Remi Durlo said that the general situation
in Kosovo is stable despite incidents and that UNMIK
is not surprised with the latest attacks against
Serbs.
He told the national Tanjug news agency that the most
important thing is that none of the incidents had
escalated into violence.
Source: Xinhua
People's Daily Online ---
http://english.people.com.cn/
I appreciate your reflections on the situation on site in Kosovo. (Did you mean to say that you have been there?)
I am hopeful of a resolution to the terror perpetrated by the Albanians against the Serbs.
Charles English - State - South eastern Euro affairs said this:
“The primary responsibility for this lies with Kosovo's majority Albanian community,” he said. “Until that community adequately protects and guarantees the rights of its minority communities, the pace of Kosovo's Euro-Atlantic integration will suffer.”
No carte blanche for the Albanians living in Kosovo.
In addition, John Bolton opposed the Kosovo intervention, on the grounds that there was not "a sufficient American interest to take the side either of the Kosovar Albanians or of the Serbs." Liberals might remember that, in 1999 at least, Bolton was on the "legal" side, and they were, by and large, waging an illegal war. (from Cato Institute website) Bolton is of course the US Ambassador to the UN.
Finally Serbia's army stands strong and prepared for an emergency. NO other nation in the region can approach its strength. Correct me if I am wrong.
Having reported all this - the region is a mess...created by the illegal intervention of the Clintonistas.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
and lost its mandate
BTW -- let me add that you have lost yours a long time ago.
I'm curious about your background concerning Kosovo. Mine is mentioned in the following:
http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=6899
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/deliso/042.shtml
one Long URL below:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200509\SPE20050927a.html
I lived there from 1999 to 2004, on the economy. I am not so optimistic about a peaceful resolution, for the long term. Reference my last post, concerning an attack on the bus December 4. The difference this time was that there were Albanians onboard as well. The message, hard to say. Maybe don't cooperate or tolerate the presence of Serbs...if you do you are targets as well. I'm guessing, but it seems so.
The Serbian would have no chance against NATO and a U.S. lead attack. They can only handle other forces within the Balkan, or the terrorist attacks......but, Serbia has it's own internal problems. Organized crime is also in control of what goes on in Kosovo not the UN or KFOR.
Current events and the end article....UN's assessment....??
Kosovo PM Condemns Bus Assault
Pristina, 5 Dec (B92) - Kosovo Prime Minister Bajram Kosumi condemns armed assault on regional bus line.
Armed assailants attacked a regional bus connecting Dragas and Prizren in Kosovo on Saturday 22:00 with two rocket grenades that luckily did not explode, but passed right through the vehicle. Members of the German contingent in KFOR deactivated the grenades, while Kosovo Police Service spokesman Refki Morina confirmed that the incident took place without any casualties.
UNMIK Chief Søren Jessen-Petersen decided to enhance security measures in Kosovo after this latest assault. “Incidents such as the one last night demonstrate that, during the status process, which has just begun, isolated individuals or groups who do not have Kosovo’s best interests in mind may attempt to disrupt Kosovo’s way forward for their own ulterior motives”, stated Petersen’s press release.
Kosovo Prime Minister Bajram Kosumi condemned the armed assault on the civilian bus, stressing that incidents such as these were aggravating an already tight situation, especially in light of the upcoming negotiations over Kosovo’s status. “The situation calls for higher security measures in Kosovo, especially at a time when our country is experiencing one of the most significant periods for determining the future of its citizens”, stated a press release issued by Kosumi’s Cabinet. (Beta)
This is what ma bell and myself have been saying for a while now and many people here, including some Serb supporters, have been insisting that this was some kind of religious or political "struggle". Kosovar Albanians are clanists, religious affiliation is only window dressing.
Kosovo is now nothing more than a UN governed, NATO protected crime racket.
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