Kosovo: Clinton Lied, People Died

World Net Daily ^ | December 1, 2005 | Laurence A. Elder

[F-117A]

Bump!

[tgambill]

First statment is true.....but you don't understand how their machine works. The Koran is full of contradictions...it not prohibited in the Koran if its against an enemy of Islam. They twist it that way for sure. However, there is no twisting the Pork issue....that is solid Koranic.....

I am exactly who I'm "playing I'm being"......

http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=6899
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/deliso/042.shtml

one Long URL below:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200509\SPE20050927a.html

About being "Just stupid"...read and learn....I back up what I say.....

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Near Klina Excavated 22 Total Of Bodies
Trans: ZS
Klina, Pristina, Belgrade, 2 May 05(Beta) – Excavation of remains of kidnapped Serbs near the village of Volujak (Klina municipality) is about to finish.
“So far 22 bodies have been excavated, of which 9 of them are identified, and names will be announced after their family members take custody of the remains” – said Colonel Gvozden Gagic, President of Serbia and Montenegro Committee for Missing person.
“We estimate that the remains we discovered belongs to people who were kidnapped by KLA in July 1998, in area of Orahovac, because in that year were reported 35 missing Serbs”, added Colonel Gagic.

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UNMIK SEEKS NEW MASS GRAVES IN ORAHOVAC AREA
UNMIK forensics will make additional searches within 5-6 days, of the place where the remains of 22 Serbs were excavated. Other forensic teams will search an area of deserted mine and around village Volujak, in attempt to find other locations where kidnapped Serbs from this area were buried after execution.
“There are indications of existence of other mass graves around Klina, were kidnapped civilians were buried after execution, but it is not confirmed by investigation yet”, added Gagic.

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Kosovars Expect Progress On Missing Persons
By Muhamet Hajrullahu
Klina, 02 May (IWPR) - Discovery of bodies of Serbs killed in Kosova war may, paradoxically, ease talks on missing persons between Belgrade and Prishtina.
Serbian families laid wreaths and lit candles on April 23 in front of a cave in the Klina region of western Kosova, where the remains of 22 people were found.
DNA testing has identified seven of the victims, discovered on April 19, as Serbs who went missing in 1998 in Rahovec, 50 kilometers west of the capital, Prishtina.
The discovery, near the village of Volljakë (in Serbian, Volujak), marks the first time a mass grave containing Serbs has been found in Kosova, and both the authorities here and local human rights activists believe it will aid talks between Belgrade and Prishtina on missing persons.
Two of the bodies found in the cave were of Olgica Bozanic's brothers, from the village of Opterusa in Rahovec, who until now were considered missing.
She said that until now the family had hoped its missing relatives might still be alive.
"Since their disappearance, we received various information that they were alive and being forced to work in labour camps," said Bozanic.
Seeing the bodies in the cave had been painful, she added, "but finally we know the truth and no one can fool us any longer with stories that our missing people are alive".

The Office of Missing Persons and Forensics, from the UN mission in Kosova, UNMIK, estimates that just under 3,000 people are still counted as missing in Kosova.
The great majority – around 2,400 - are ethnic Albanians while the rest are Serbs, Roma and others.
Daut Dauti, spokesperson for the Kosova government, told IWPR on April 26 that the Volljakë/Volujak mass grave discovery shows that Albanians are willing to return the bodies of missing Serbs and were serious partners in negotiations on missing persons in general.
"Negotiations with Serbs on missing persons issues have often been difficult because Albanians have been accused of not revealing and returning the bodies of missing Serbs," explained Dauti.
After a year of stalemate, when almost no progress was made, the working group on missing persons, chaired by the International Committee of the Red Cross, ICRC, met in Belgrade on March 16.
The two sides signed a framework document and accepted ICRC's list of 2,960 still missing as the agreed reference figure. The officials also agreed to meet again on June 9 in Prishtina.
According to Dauti, the discovery of the mass grave will strengthen Kosovar attempts to get the Serbian authorities to make more efforts to locate missing Albanians.
"The government supports the initiative to investigate and discover mass graves such as this one," said Dauti, adding that "this discovery will clearly help the Kosovar delegation in talks on missing persons with officials from Belgrade".
However, representatives of human rights groups, such as Jeta Bejtullahu, of the Humanitarian Law Centre, HLC, in Prishtina say the grave's discovery will do more than expedite the activities of working groups on the missing.
The generally accurate and unbiased reporting of the event in the Kosova media, she said, "shows Kosova Albanian society is ready to accept that Serbs, although on a much smaller scale, were also victims in the Kosova war".
She added, "This is a step forward from the complete denial that existed in the (immediate) post-war years."
Bejtullahu stressed that much work remained to be done on the issue from the point of view of human rights activists.
"There are still reservations (among Albanians) in accepting that the responsibility for crimes against minorities falls on the shoulders of the majority in Kosova," she concluded.
Olgica Bozanic, who is now a refugee in Belgrade, told IWPR that she last saw her brothers on July 18 1998, when a battle took place between Serbian forces and the Kosova Liberation Army, KLA, for control of the Rahovec area.

"During the night between 17 and 18 July 1998, the Albanians attacked the Serbs living in Opterusa, which was mostly Albanian," she said.
The local Serb men had "defended themselves until the morning but then they surrendered to local Albanians and to people ... in black uniforms". She never saw her brothers again.
Dauti is convinced the Kosova public is becoming more aware that crimes were committed against Serbs in the war.

"Albanian society and institutions have to accept that the Serbs of Kosova were also victims in the war and the mass grave in Klina proves it," he said.
Bejtullahu says it is time now for Belgrade and Prishtina to de-politicize the issue of missing persons.
The entire business should be transformed "from a political perspective to a humanitarian one", she said, as this would "help shed light on what happened to the rest of the missing persons - an issue that so far has been held hostage to political calculations".

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From Nov.3, Toronto Star (a similar article appeared in the Nov. 11 New York Times)

"No genocide, no justification for war on Kosovo"

IN THE GENOCIDE of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo by the forces of Serb leader Slobodan Milosevic, the worst incident occurred at the Trepca mine. As reported by American and NATO officials, large numbers of bodies were brought in by trucks under the cover of darkness. The bodies were then thrown down the shafts, or were disposed of entirely in the mine’s vats of hydrochloric acid. Estimates of the number of dead began at 1,000. That was six months ago, in the middle of the war undertaken to halt what both U.S. President Bill Clinton and British Prime Minister Tony Blair called "a human catastrophe." Estimates of the number of ethnic Albanians slaughtered went upward from 10,000. U.S. Defence Secretary William Cohen put the count at 100,000.

Three weeks ago, the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia released the findings of Western forensic teams investigating the horror at Trepca. There were not 1,000 bodies down the mine shafts at Trepca, reported the tribunal. There were not 100 bodies there. There was not one body there, nor was there any evidence the vats had ever been used to dispose of human remains. Shortly afterward, the tribunal reported on its work at the most infamous of all the mass graves of ethnic Albanians, at Ljubenic near the town of Pec. Earlier, NATO officials had said 350 victims had been hastily buried there by the retreating Serb forces. There were not 350 bodies at Ljubenic, though. There were five. So far, not one mass grave has been found in Kosovo, despite four months’ work by forensic teams, including experts from the FBI and the RCMP.

This discovery - more accurately, this non-discovery - first was made public three weeks ago by the Texas-based intelligence think tank, Stratfor. Stratfor estimated the number of ethnic Albanian dead in Kosovo at 500. Last weekend, the story was broadcast for the first time by the TV Ontario program Diplomatic Immunity. (Last Sunday’s New York Times was still using the "10,000 deaths" figure.) T

he story has begun to appear in European newspapers. Spain’s El Pais has quoted the head of the Spanish forensic team, Emilo Pujol, as saying he had resigned because, after being told to expect to have to carry out 2,000 autopsies, he’d only had 97 bodies to examine - none of which "showed any signs of mutilation or torture." Because 250 of 400 suspected mass graves in Kosovo remain to be examined, it’s possible that evidence of mass killings will yet be found. This is highly unlikely though, because the worst sites were dug up first.

No genocide of ethnic Albanians by Serbs, therefore. No "human catastrophe." No "modern-day Holocaust." All of those claims may have been an honest mistake. Equally, they may have been a grotesque lie concocted to justify a war that NATO originally assumed would be over in a day or two, with Milosevic using the excuse of some minimal damage as a cover for a surrender, but then had to fight (at great expense) for months.

There’s no question that atrocities were committed in Kosovo, overwhelmingly by the Serb forces, although the ethnic Albanian guerrillas were not innocent. Quite obviously, these forces, acting on Milosevic’s explicit orders, carried out mass expulsions of people, terrorizing them and destroying their homes and property. Acts like these are inexcusable. That they occur often in civil wars (far worse are being committed by the Russians in Chechnya), is irrelevant to their horror. But they have nothing to do with genocide. No genocide means no justification for a war inflicted by NATO on a sovereign nation. Only a certainty of imminent genocide could have legally justified a war that was not even discussed by the U.N. Security Council. No genocide means that the tribunal’s indictment of Milosevic becomes highly questionable. Even more questionable is the West’s continued punishment of the Serbs - the Danube bridges and the power stations remain in ruins - when their offence may well have been stupidity rather than criminality. The absence of genocide may mean something else, something deeply shaming. To halt the supposed genocide, NATO bombed targets in Serbia proper. Because of "collateral" or accidental damage, such as the bombing of a train, some 500 civilians were killed (Belgrade claims almost 1,000 deaths). NATO very likely killed as many people as were killed in Kosovo. The number of these dead isn’t large enough to justify NATO’s actions being called a "human catastrophe." But, unless proof of genocide can be produced, NATO’s actions were clearly a moral catastrophe.


Richard Gwyn’s column appears Wednesday, Friday and Sunday in The Star

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[Hoplite]

Playtime is over.

You're not the real deal - you don't comprehend written English, much less possess the writing skill required to hold any position where documenting information is involved.

Run along.

[tgambill]

"And opposed to totally supporting the KLA, the Kosovar Albanian majority continue to support Ibrahim Rugova, with Rugova's party outpolling the KLA's candidates in Kosovo's elections."

I almost forgot.....All the Albanians support the KLA, no question. Now disrespect meant, but, you are not understanding the complexity of the situation as is the issue for most Internationals that go there. A lot of local Albanian and Serbs don't understand the situation as they tend to believe and follow the ones that demands to be believed. However, in several meetings I do understand several Albanians had stood up in meetings and verbally blasting the PDK or AAK members that were thought to be Mafia key figures....for the most part, they supported the KLA. Why? They are considered to be the heros that fought the Serbs. However, what you are speaking of is the political fights that occurred after the International community arrived. Yes, the KLA changed to TMK and KPC. The IC was very selective of former KLA members that wanted to join the TMK or KPC. Members of the KLA went to the PDK and AAK parties. The LDK consisted of Rugova, Bujar Bukoski and members of the Former FARK (AFRK). They fled Kosovo during the War under threat of death by Thaci and Ramush while they were KLA commanders. Tahis Zimaj is another example. He was later murdered in Kosovo after he returned by former members of the KLA..as was Commander Drini of the LDK. Now, you are right, I was there for the first elections in 2000, and organized the prototype Security TaskForce in the Eastern Region prior to the elections that all the others would eventually follow.

Yes, in every case, the LDK won decisively.....however, they sustained assaults, murder, intimidation and every other kind of attacks from members of the AAK and PDK (former KLA) members....in every election. They were targets with little or no retaliation from LDK members. Rugova settled his people down so another war would not develop........

In conclusion.....All Albanians, with the exception of the ones the KLA murdered, supported the KLA from start to finish. They supported them as "KLA"...not supported as political candidates. That is a different story entirely. They (Albanians) know that the AAK and PDK were members of organized crime and was also party to the continuing provocations in the Presevo Valley (UCPMB) in 2001; Macedonia (NLA) in 2001 and 2002...and four other rebel groups in northwestern Greece, and Montenegro.

[tgambill]

"And opposed to totally supporting the KLA, the Kosovar Albanian majority continue to support Ibrahim Rugova, with Rugova's party outpolling the KLA's candidates in Kosovo's elections."

I almost forgot.....All the Albanians support the KLA, no question. Now disrespect meant, but, you are not understanding the complexity of the situation as is the issue for most Internationals that go there. A lot of local Albanian and Serbs don't understand the situation as they tend to believe and follow the ones that demands to be believed. However, in several meetings I do understand several Albanians had stood up in meetings and verbally blasting the PDK or AAK members that were thought to be Mafia key figures....for the most part, they supported the KLA. Why? They are considered to be the heros that fought the Serbs. However, what you are speaking of is the political fights that occurred after the International community arrived. Yes, the KLA changed to TMK and KPC. The IC was very selective of former KLA members that wanted to join the TMK or KPC. Members of the KLA went to the PDK and AAK parties. The LDK consisted of Rugova, Bujar Bukoski and members of the Former FARK (AFRK). They fled Kosovo during the War under threat of death by Thaci and Ramush while they were KLA commanders. Tahis Zimaj is another example. He was later murdered in Kosovo after he returned by former members of the KLA..as was Commander Drini of the LDK. Now, you are right, I was there for the first elections in 2000, and organized the prototype Security TaskForce in the Eastern Region prior to the elections that all the others would eventually follow.

Yes, in every case, the LDK won decisively.....however, they sustained assaults, murder, intimidation and every other kind of attacks from members of the AAK and PDK (former KLA) members....in every election. They were targets with little or no retaliation from LDK members. Rugova settled his people down so another war would not develop........

In conclusion.....All Albanians, with the exception of the ones the KLA murdered, supported the KLA from start to finish. They supported them as "KLA"...not supported as political candidates. That is a different story entirely. They (Albanians) know that the AAK and PDK were members of organized crime and was also party to the continuing provocations in the Presevo Valley (UCPMB) in 2001; Macedonia (NLA) in 2001 and 2002...and four other rebel groups in northwestern Greece, and Montenegro.

[tgambill]

Playtime just started.....I don't have the time to make the writing pretty...if you're worried about the writing, then you're missing the message and realizing that you just might have something to learn. That really torques your jaw and pisses you off. You are very full of yourself, and unwilling to learn anything other than what you think you know. It's that simple. This is indicated when debaters go on personal attacks of character, skill or whatever and miss the true message through the smokescreen of pride......:)

[tgambill]

My reply, first line reads..."I almost forgot.....All the Albanians support the KLA, no question. Now disrespect meant, but, you are not understanding". I meant to write...."No disrespect meant"...

sorry, a slip of the finger.

[tgambill]

It's true......thanks....

[crude77]

bump

[montyspython]

Don't mind Hoplite, you bruised his fragile ego. He so wants to prove that he's the man with all the "inside" information that anything that contradicts his spin gets him all riled up.

He's posturing himself like peacock, its all about territorial pissings for Hoplite.

[Coleus]

And where were all the peace activists during that pre-emptive war? eh? c'mon hypocrite DEMONrats, answer me.

Our soldiers are still there too, wearing UN blue berets, why aren't you demanding they come home?

[ladyinred]

But Bill just lied about sex and war so it is alright you see!

[getoffmylawn]

I stopped reading his posts years ago, but based on your replies to him, it appears he's following the same patterns. Rest assured that the minute the personal attacks and insults begin, you must have made some very valid points and he feels threatened. Nice work.

[Tall_Texan]

Just think. If America hadn't interceded in Kosovo, Paris would now be overrun with Muslims and there would be violence all over Europe. Oh, wait.

[ma bell]

welcome aboard to the dose of reality, hop.

Since you follow me onto LF, you are aware of my same sentiments about the Albanians and Presevo Valley..(Follow the Yellow/Green Road Theory)

[ma bell]

welcome aboard, Marine. :)

[ma bell]

I'll get in touch with you aftr this weekend, duty calls.

[ma bell]

Chisucks fan...:) lol, is that why Hoppy took me off his Christmas shopping list years ago? Why he heaps insults upon insults onto me?

how 'bout da Bears?

[getoffmylawn]

Wear those insults as a badge of honor. You've earned it!

Chisucks? All I got to say to that is, "Wire to wire with the bling bling finale." I break out into a big smile about it at least once a day and every day feels like Christmas!

All summer long when I'd be on the phone with George Bogdanich [also a huge life-long White Sox fan], our conversations and emails would occilate between the Srebrenica Report and the Sox. It was surreal.

As for Da Bears, I used to be a big fan before Walter Payton retired :-( Now I'm more of a bandwagon type guy. I haven't seen them play much this year because I usually wake up after their games are over, but I've been reading about them and their defense sounds downright nasty. I'm predicting a 13-3 Bears upset of the Colts in the Super Bowl.

[Hunden]

Funny how the NY Times and other liberal organs never talk about Kosovo. Why is that?

They do. You just did't notice them.