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Mao debunkers defend their book (Critics call it effort to discredit communism)
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | Friday, November 25, 2005 | Rick DelVecchio

Posted on 11/26/2005 1:15:03 AM PST by nickcarraway

In Berkeley, where revolutionaries schooled in the '60s tilt against global capitalism and post-socialist state China is a growing field of academic study, radicals and scholars alike are coming to grips with a new biography that paints Chinese communist icon Mao Zedong as pure evil.

In "Mao: The Unknown Story," authors Jung Chang and Jon Halliday portray Mao (1893-1976) as a cynical hedonist who rose to absolute power on Soviet strongman Josef Stalin's muscle and his willingness to crush millions of peasants in famine, war and sadistic repression.

The authors, who spent a decade on the project and scoured private and government records in China and Russia, say Mao killed 10 times more innocents than Hitler and was as pitiless as he was incompetent as a revolutionary. The fabled Long March of the 1930s? Bungled. The Cultural Revolution of the '60s and '70s? Nothing more than a murderous fit of pique by a tyrant upset that he'd been crossed by rivals and enamored of public torture.

Mao was, however, a genius of spin. The authors say he sold international leftists a fairy tale of a corrupt state transformed by revolution from the bottom up.

"It was mainly, I think, hot air," Halliday dryly told a large crowd during an appearance at UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business earlier this month.

The assertion that Mao used the bloody turmoil of Marxist revolution for purely egotistical ends has prompted praise in some quarters and outrage in others. The controversy comes as China's 20-year economic boom is creating growing social disparity -- and the ruling Communist Party worries about Maoist nostalgia among a new generation of have-nots even as it holds up Mao as a symbol of its historical legitimacy.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: athiefincharge; berkeley; boppaboppahoomaomao; boppahoomaomao; china; chinesedemocrat; commiepervert; commierapist; communism; culturalrevolution; democrathero; fatbaldandstupid; fatbuffoon; fatolddungheap; kerryvoter; lenin; leninism; likedyoungboys; likedyoungducks; likedyounggirls; likedyounggoats; likedyoungpigs; mao; maomaomaomaomao; maumaumaumaumau; piginred; rcp; russia; ruthlessmurderer; stalin; stalinism; stalinist; std; worldcantwait
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1 posted on 11/26/2005 1:15:05 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Critics call it effort to discredit communism

So??!?!?

2 posted on 11/26/2005 1:16:47 AM PST by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: nickcarraway

and was as pitiless as he was incompetent as a revolutionary.



"incomeptent as a revolutionary" is an interesting phrase/oxymoron, considering the revolutionaires of this world thrive on politicaly degrading opponents and current systems anyways, to make them easier to neglect or murder.

Look no further than Democrats to see that relenrless hate-America activity going on.

As for communism, what of an ideology which degrades the world to its feet, and which degrades people in aspirations against God and higher aspirations?

Oh, dare we not degrade the communists for degrading....


3 posted on 11/26/2005 1:23:28 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: nickcarraway
You can file this under "No Sh**".

L

4 posted on 11/26/2005 1:26:03 AM PST by Lurker ("Son, there's only two things you need in this world; love and a .45.")
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To: nickcarraway

Communism discredited itself. It just doesn't work.


5 posted on 11/26/2005 1:27:02 AM PST by inkling
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To: nickcarraway

Only the SF Gate is surprised that Mao is the largest mass murderer in human history.

Who knew?

jas3

p.s. Answer: EVERYBDOY.


6 posted on 11/26/2005 1:40:29 AM PST by jas3
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To: nickcarraway; All
-China's Bloody Century--

Boundless: The Double Standard for Political Crime
... Review of The Black Book of Communism. Crimes, Terror, Repression, by Stéphane Courtois
et al, trans. Jonathan Murphy and Mark Kramer. Harvard University Press ...

7 posted on 11/26/2005 1:46:21 AM PST by backhoe
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To: nickcarraway

I hope the authors send a complimentary copy to Maoist
John Kerry.


8 posted on 11/26/2005 2:17:57 AM PST by purpleland (Vigilance and Valor! Socialism is the Opiate of Academia)
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To: nickcarraway
A friend of mine was born and raised in Shanghai, China. She has long since moved to the US and become an American citizen, but she lived through the horrors of the "Cultural Revolution" as a young woman, and I've heard some hair-raising stuff from her first-hand accounts. Her father, a gifted artist, committed suicide during that time, he had been "reassigned" to unskilled manual labor.

Anyone who tries to make excuses for Mao or Communism is mentally ill.

9 posted on 11/26/2005 2:26:04 AM PST by Ichneumon
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To: nickcarraway

When you read officially censored commentaries written by individual Chinese, there are lots of codewords like "When you look at the DPRK today, you will have a sense of deja vu and a reminder of the hard times we had before the economic reforms and openings." In other words, Mao's China was like North Korea today.

Even the Chinese Communists now admit the Mao era is all a big mistake and disastrous. Officially when Deng Xiaoping was alive the officially approved judgement of Mao is "70% hero, 30% villain." and today it seems to try to hush any discussions about Mao.

The San Francisco Bay Area far-leftists fail to follow Chairman Hu Jiantao's words: "Keeping up with the times".

;-)


10 posted on 11/26/2005 2:29:27 AM PST by NZerFromHK (Alberta independentists to Canada (read: Ontario and Quebec): One hundred years is long enough)
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To: nickcarraway

"The authors, who spent a decade on the project and scoured private and government records in China and Russia, say Mao killed 10 times more innocents than Hitler and was as pitiless as he was incompetent as a revolutionary."


Mao was nothing more than a tyrant. Among the millions he killed were about a million Tibetans after he invaded Tibet. China is an imperial power , cowed in modern times only by nuclear weapons. We seem to forget that,conveniently.


11 posted on 11/26/2005 2:30:06 AM PST by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: Ichneumon

I have read something even more hair-raising: in Guangdong (next to Hong Kong) and Hunan, during the Cultural Revolution the Red Guards of rival factions engaged in gun battles. In Guangxi, acts of annibalism were committed: the "class enemies" were taken to face a crowd, killed alive, the remains boiled and eaten.

In a sense the Cultural Revolution has inflicted as much damage on Chinese as the Holocaust on the Jewish people and I think it is far worse than the Purges by Joseph Stalin in the 1930s. Its aftermath still affects us today: notice the lack of ethics, moral values, and moderation from a majority of mainland Chinese today. The Cultural Revolution destroyed the Chinese soul.


12 posted on 11/26/2005 2:34:54 AM PST by NZerFromHK (Alberta independentists to Canada (read: Ontario and Quebec): One hundred years is long enough)
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To: nickcarraway
Nine Commentaries on the [Chinese] Communist Party

It makes the book mentioned in the article read like official Chinese Communist propaganda in comparison. To the Berkeley leftists: if you have any beef with critiques about the CCP, then be my guest mate. See if you can refute any single well-argued point the Nine Commentaries have made.

13 posted on 11/26/2005 2:43:36 AM PST by NZerFromHK (Alberta independentists to Canada (read: Ontario and Quebec): One hundred years is long enough)
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To: nickcarraway
Mao's Little Red Book and Stalin's speeches are very much worth reading. Source material beats sophomoric rants.

"Democratic centralism" goes right back to Rousseau's "general will". Stalin's speeches talk a lot about the Communist Party embodying the "will of the people". Mao's "Little Red Book" uses identical metaphor.

Kim Jong Il, sure, but also the MSM and Democrat Party.
14 posted on 11/26/2005 2:58:28 AM PST by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father.")
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To: Ichneumon

" Anyone who tries to make excuses for Mao or Communism is mentally ill."

ive met many apologists.....now i know well enough to walk away.


15 posted on 11/26/2005 3:37:50 AM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: nickcarraway
Mao, Stalin, Lenin, USSR, PRC, North Korea, Eastern Europe... How much work does it take to discredit communism?

Interestingly, the only "true" believers in communism these days seem to reside in the alternate universe of education.

16 posted on 11/26/2005 4:17:23 AM PST by aardvark1 (Eschew obfuscation.)
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To: aardvark1

"A lot of their response would be, 'Materialistically it's great. We can get whatever we want. We don't have to wait in long lines.' But they also said that morally it's really going down because now it's a money society," she said.

Morally there's nothing better than supporting yourself. Morally and spiritually.


17 posted on 11/26/2005 4:39:26 AM PST by bkepley
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To: nickcarraway
Mao was, however, a genius of spin.

I would imagine many of our elitists in the MSM are fans of Mao.

18 posted on 11/26/2005 5:47:22 AM PST by manwiththehands
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To: nickcarraway

And this is actually being reported in the Chronicle


19 posted on 11/26/2005 5:48:44 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: JudgemAll
Look no further than Democrats to see that relentless hate-America activity going on.

One of the most important tools of tyrants is lying. "Lying and the Lies that Liars Lie" is basic to understanding tyrannies. Now that the demos are exposed as liars we will be able to understand the devastation caused by moral ambiguity. A few years ago an important book emerged chronicling the memoirs of Mao's physician. Mao was depicted as vulgar, sexually depraved, filthy and riddled with STDs. He raped virgins daily for decades. Mao is personally responsible for the death and disfigurement of even more millions by sexually transmitted disease. He was the greatest evil scourge in the history of mankind.

20 posted on 11/26/2005 5:49:26 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (THIS IS WAR AND I MEAN TO WIN IT.)
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