New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates Can't Speak in Tongues

Beliefnet ^ | Nov. 23 2005Beliefnet | Adelle M. Banks

[George W. Bush]

I once thought an older widow woman(widda, to you southerners) who sat behind me was quietly speaking in tongues. Turns out, she was just echoing the prayers of whoever was leading the congregation in prayer, adding her own pleas and amens...

No Baptist would forbid the woman you mention from such practice. Baptists are a vocal lot and you often hear whispers or exclamations of Praise Jesus or Amen and such during the service. Many churches have a tradition where deacons and elder members of the church will say Amen as the preacher hits the points of his sermon that are most meaningful, drawing the attention of the congregation (which may wander) back to the speaker. This is sound worship practice but it has no relation to charismania.

In the instance where the pastor and deacon took action, the congregation was praying over our pastor individually before sending him to New York to work the Baptist relief effort for 9/11. A teenage girl from an AOG stood up and did the full-blown babble (inasmuch as I can tell) for over two miniutes. There was no mistaking this.

The original miracle allowed those assembled to hear the message in their *OWN* language.

As any Baptist would affirm. The message was spoken and heard in the languages of those present and the speakers did not know the language themselves and souls were converted to Christ upon the hearing of it.

Of course, if the charismatics are correct, they don't even need to train missionaries to speak local languages. Just send 'em over, let 'em babble, bam, souls converted and churches established. But then, that real test of miraculous tongues never happens with these babble-advocates.

If babbling is so effective, then why should Baptists pay to train missionaries in local languages?

Pentacost was a special miracle intended to establish a far-flung group of ancient churches, to plant the seeds of Christianity throughout the Roman empire before Jerusalem was destroyed.

[chronic_loser]

I would say that language like that is just as pagan and demonic as any unscriptural gibberish masquerading as "prophecy."

While I am not charismatic and have never spoken in tongues, it is hard to argue that there is not SOMETHING going on in the charismatic churches. I do not believe it is the "miraculous" stuff, I do believe that the openness, the lack of centralized structure, the focus on the immediacy of the Holy Spirit as an active agent in our lives, and the expectancy that God will, in fact DO SOMETHING, is both pleasing to God and trumps alot of the doctrinal nonsense that goes along with it.

We attended a charismatic church as a family for about a year, and while we eventually left because of some of the excesses and just plain BAD theology, I came away rebuked in many ways by some of the elements above.

I have seen many historically orthodox persons ascribe the growth and conversions to demonic counterfeits. I think this a VERY dangerous path to go down, in light of the warning against blasphemy against the Spirit. Did you know that the number one selling book among Chilean pentecostals is Louis Berkhof's Systematic Theology? Can't get much more orthodox than that.

I am happy for the growth of Christ's church, and want to be a part of bringing MYSELF first and then all of the church into a more completed knowledge of the scriptures. Usually the first step in that process is not calling someone who is off the beaten track "demonic," but trying to understand the good that they may have to teach me along with how I might help them in the process.

by the way, I grew up in a Southern Baptist Church.

[Coldwater Creek]

Happy Thanksgiving to you, and thanks for the work that you do on this thread.

Maria

[tutstar]

I asked because you said in your post that we can't pick and choose which parts of scripture to believe and practice.

If we are not going to ignore scripture then we must accept I COR 13:8 as well as(not sure which version you copied) but in KJV it says...

1Cr 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Fail &vanish away are the same Greek word but different than the Greek word for cease. It doesn't tell us they will all go away at the same time.

I personally know a woman who went on a mission trip to Mexico as an interpreter. She had become a bit discouraged due to the fact she was not familiar with the dialect in the region where they went. When the church service began she was amazed to hear herself speaking the very words and new words in the dialect of the people. Several souls repented that night. It was an apparent moving of the Lord that occurred that night and she has never experienced since that time. Situations like this one imo are more similar to the event on the day of Pentecost than what is done by many who "speak in tongues" today.

[Eagle Eye]

With all due respect, you are exhibiting a type of un-belief common to those who have not been properly taught on the subject.

Why do I say this, aside from your obvious denial of speaking on tongues?

Your previous post implies that speaking in tongues is the ability to speak to other men in their language:

"Of course, if the charismatics are correct, they don't even need to train missionaries to speak local languages."

and that is simply incorect. The Bible clearly states that he who speaks in an unknown tongue doesn't speak to man, but to God. Also, Paul suggests that it is possible to speak in the tongues of men and angles.

There is nothing that suggests or implies that speaking in tongues is intended to be a substitute for natural linguisting ability.

My point is that when you base your doctrines on ignorance and unsound interpretations you will miss out on God's intended blessings. When you discourage others from seeking what God has made available, that gets into a whole new category--working against God.

I'm all for each person obtaining everthing that God makes available and fully expressing the power of Christ in their lives.

Others on this thread are not.

[chronic_loser]

God Bless You. Those kids might not remember all the doo dahs about worship styles, but they WILL remember your love and integrity. I guarantee it, and more importantly, so does Jesus.

[Eagle Eye]

Obviously what happened on the day of Pentacost was miraculous, not the least of which was the fact that spectators heard the apostles praising God in a variety of local langauges presumably unknown to the apostles.

Nothing in the New Testament garantees this will happen, or denies that it can't happen again.

I've heard other similar stories, but too many non believers persist in the notion that tongues are for preaching to others when clearly that is not the intent.

But every story I have ever heard of this has the bystanders all saying that the speaker was praising God.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I would have that this was already the case. Interesting. I guess better late than never.

I had a good friend a long time ago who was into this. She was a very dear person but just a little nuts. The saddest part was that her husband felt inferior to her, spiritually anyway. He wanted to be able to do it and couldn't.

[mc6809e]

You do realize that you are in direct opposition to the writings of Paul, don't you?

Big deal. I know what went on in my church. I was there.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

It is your right to believe that, but the practice is wrong according to SB theology. You have to agree with their theology or find another denomination. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. To people who think this isn't of God, that leaves them wondering the source of it. You must see why that's a problem for them.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I remember there was a religious group that knew God so well that they kicked out anyone who believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ. They thought anyone who believed that was 'disqualified' from their religion. I wonder if the SBC now thinks that those others who call themselves followers of Jesus and practice this which what they forbid are disqualified. I guess Peter and the others lost their accreditation to go to missions at Pentecost. The gifts of the Holy Spirit have been greatly abused, which leads many churches to dismiss them outright. Of course the call to giving has been abused by many churches and church leaders as well, maybe more so than the abuse of the gifts. I don't see any churches though forbidding the practice of giving to the church.

You know that principle works both ways -- the force principle. If you don't agree with them, there are many denominations who will support your practice. They must follow their conscience and you yours. The issue for them is that they believe it is not a gift from the Holy Spirit. So that leaves them questioning the source. Is it the individual or something worse?

[Eagle Eye]

Maybe you should repudiate what went on locally instead of repudiating large sections of the New Testament.

Imagine applying your attitude toward giving, praying, serving, etc?

[WalterSkinner]

..one last thing.

Unscriptural traditions have developed on both sides of the issue. One can be doctrinally sound, but traditionally bound (to quote someone else).When anything becomes central to the believer's faith and worship other than the Lord Himself--it is idolatry.

To quote a well-known preacher, "The problem in the Church is not Tongues--but The Tongue".

[RVN Airplane Driver]

Guess that shuts down black baptist churches.....

[little jeremiah]

I'm not a Baptist, so likely my opinion here is out of place. But just piping up - my understanding is that "tongues" means speaking in different languages. The old fashioned usage of the word, as in "he spoke a different tongue" - means he spoke a different language, like German or Greek. I think the Bible just means people could speak in different languages, to teach those who spoke different languages.

Backing out of discussion now.

Happy Thanks Giving!

[George W. Bush]

I have carried southern baptist teens to youth rallies, and they come back on fire, ready to "save the world". Just as soon as we get back the First Baptist Fire Department is right there to douse the fire these young people bring back. Bare in mind now that these young people weren't speaking in tongues, nor were they swinging from the chandeliers, they were simply worshiping God the best way they could. I think it's appalling that we tell people how to worship, and then expect them to come back next week.

I would not forbid private worship practices, even tongues. However bringing those into Baptist services isn't included in that. We Baptists believe in Baptist liberty but that is not a license to ignore what the Bible clearly says about the results of speaking in tonuges (conversion of foreigners by preaching in languages the speaker does not know).

We have, for instance, a very nice family. Their private religious practices might be considered by some to border on the charismatic. I would have no problem with them serving in any position in the church as long as they do not introduce wacky charismatic practices. As it is, I think they're among the most interesting and spiritual people in the church and they're a real asset.

We Baptists are not dictators or the prison guards of our fellow-Baptists after all.

I think you don't appreciate the number of SBC churches which were targetted for takeover by sneaky charismatics. This is well-known, especially in Texas. One of the largest early takeover attempts was back in 1979. Essentially, charismatics come in, keeping their practice secret, get enough other charismatics to join until they have a majority and then turn the whole church charismatic. This is not the practice of Christians, to use deception to steal a church from its members. Since Baptist churches are independently owned, bringing in a voting majority gives you the title to the property.

Let the charismatic church-thieves build their own churches instead of stealing the money and labor of Southern Baptists.

[mc6809e]

Maybe you should repudiate what went on locally instead of repudiating large sections of the New Testament.

Well, you repudiate large sections of the old testament, right?

I mean, when was the last time you kept kosher?

[AmericaUnited]

Good luck with bringing pagan and demonic practices into your church

Obviously, you've never read the New Testment. And so how do you justify the cocky, know-it-all attitude?

[VOYAGER]

The Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board has adopted a new policy that forbids missionary candidates from speaking in tongues.

The Baptists are getting as bad as the Catholics claiming(between the lines) they and they alone have the power to save or unsave you depending upon whether you sheeple march in lockstep with the hierarchial claims of (ha ha)infalibility!

Again the age old question arises, "who died and made either one of these windbag groups GOD?"

[George W. Bush]

I think the Bible just means people could speak in different languages, to teach those who spoke different languages.

Agreed. They spoke in languages unknown to them and were confounded by it. Then the miracle was revealed: foreigners could understand their preaching and accepted Christ. This is the miracle of Pentacost.