New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates Can't Speak in Tongues

Paul was already a devout God-fearing man. He had just not had any experience with a living Spirit.

Paul was as hardened an unbeliever as could be.And you suggest it was because he hadn't had an ecstatic experience with the Holy Spirit.

Wow!! That is hillarious.

New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates Can't Speak in Tongues

Excellent idea.

Something very phony about it when so many do it all at once each one saying something different and no one to interpret.

Paul was as hardened an unbeliever as could be.And you suggest it was because he hadn't had an ecstatic experience with the Holy Spirit.

Paul did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. His teachings brought him to the place where he was useful to God. But, Saul of Tarsus was definitely a devout, God-fearing Jew. He was so zealous that he took the role of chief persecuter of the believers in the risen Christ. When God approached, he heard Him speak.

God chose a man with an inside connection, to bring the Gospel, the Good News. His zeal against Christians made him that much more useful to God. He was able to minister to the gentiles. But, he was also welcome in the synagogues.

Hilarious? Yes, your understanding of Jews in those days... and about his 'ecstatic' experence. God doesn't cut through stone hearts... you must have 'ears' to hear!

Now, that being said, I certainly do not see tongues as a requirement - it is a gift, freely accepted should one choose to - and I have no quarrel with those that choose not to believe - but I object to trivializing it or "demonizing" it by people who seem to be trained to have that knee-jerk response. Thank you though for your info concerning how Baptist churches are "structured". I have also no personal quarrel with Baptists, who have led many to salvation.

Then I assume you recognize we have the right (and duty) to see to it that our missionaries, commonly supported by a wide range of Baptist churches, to forbid them engaging in practices overseas that we would not approve of if practiced in our home churches.

That is, after all, the entire point of this thread.

I would like to hear Dr. Albert Mohler's thoughts on this.

BTW one of our pastors is going through his doctoral program through your fine school.

Thanks for the retort, very clear and interesting.

"I took a weekend trip with some friends, to a church in Kentucky. I witnesed the people handling snakes. I thought they were fools, but to them, it is an honest test of their faith. "

This is hard to believe to be honest with you. The "snake handler's" are very guarded and secretive--for the most part. Since this has been an illegal practice in Kentucky for sometime, they're not known for letting strangers just walk into a church uninvited. A lot of them don't even have windows in the church so you can't peer in!

chiliasm is not dispensationalism. please refrain from saying that it is. ... it is NOT a "heresy" and you do those people a grave injustice by such a gratuitous insult. ...You should repent of the tone of your post." ~ chronic_loser

No kidding. "Isn't that special?" LOL

H. M. Riggle, "History of the Millennium," The Kingdom of God, 1899 - Excerpt:

Origins of Millennial Heresy

The Millennium doctrine started in an ungodly heretic by the name of Cerinthus, who lived in the first century. It is true that the Jews generally believed that the Messiah would establish a literal or earthly kingdom. And even some of them believed that Messiah's reign would last a thousand years. We here give an extract from Neander's History of Christian Dogmas, Vol. 1, Page 248.

"The idea of a Millennial reign proceeded from Judaism; for among the Jews the representation was current that the Messiah would reign a thousand years upon earth. . . . Such products of Jewish imagination passed over into Christianity."

As before stated, Cerinthus was the first to attempt to introduce this doctrine under Christianity. Let history speak. In Eusebius's Ecclesiastical History, Book III, Chapter 28, is preserved a fragment from the writings of Caius, who lived about the close of the second century, which gives us the following account of Cerinthus's heresy:

"But Cerinthus, too, through revelations written, as he would have us believe, by a great apostle, brings before us marvelous things, which he pretends were shown him by angels; alleging that after the resurrection the kingdom of Christ is to be on earth, and that the flesh dwelling in Jerusalem is again to be subject to desires and pleasures. And being an enemy to the scriptures of God, wishing to deceive men, he says that there is to be space of a thousand years for marriage festivities." "One of the doctrines he taught was, that Christ would have an earthly kingdom."

This is the true origin of the Millennium theory. The reader will observe how lightly our author speaks of Cerinthus's idea of the kingdom of Christ being set up on earth after the resurrection. He says this doctrine was "something which he [Cerinthus] pretends was shown to him by angels." Caius must therefore have believed the orthodox teachings of the scriptures, that Christ's kingdom was set up at his first coming. Observe also that Caius calls Cerinthus "an enemy to the scriptures of God," and one who was "wishing to deceive men." This language he uses with special reference to the one thousand years Cerinthus claimed would be spent in sensuality. Notice also that Cerinthus believed in an earthly kingdom.

Cerinthus lived in the days of the apostle John. We will now call your attention to the attitude of the beloved apostle toward this Millennial teacher. Irenaeus, who was born about 120 A. D. and was acquainted with Polycarp, the disciple of John, [Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., V. 24], states that while John was at Ephesus, he entered a bath to wash and found that Cerinthus was within, and refused to bathe in the same bath house, but left the building, and exhorted those with him to do the same, saying, "Let us flee, lest the bath fall in, as long as Cerinthus, that enemy of the truth, is within." (Eusebius's Eccl. Hist., III. 28).

Let this be a rebuke to modern Millennial advocates. They claim their doctrine is well founded in the Apocalypse of John. But John called the founder of their theory "that enemy of the truth." [snip]

(Heresies, 77:26.) Epiphanes (315-403)
"There is indeed a millennium mentioned by St.John; but the most, and those pious men, look upon those words as true indeed, but to be taken in a spiritual sense."

The belief in the millennium was condemned as superstitious at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

"This obscure doctrine [Chiliasm] was probabally known to but very few except the fathers of the church, and is very sparingly mentioned by them during the first centuries; and there is reason to believe that it scarcely attained much notoriety, even among the learned Christians, until it was made a matter of controversy by Origen, and then rejected by the greater majority. In fact, we find Origen himself saying that it was confined to those of the simpler sort. " (Waddington's History, pg. 56)

More in my post #300, including a link to this:

Excerpt: "....This would put the time of the end in the year 2007 and the "rapture" in the year 2000. The Y2K scare also fueled the notion that this would be the start of the tribulation. Again, it didn't happen.

Having bought into this Premillennial way of thinking and living with great expectations that came to absolutely nothing brought me to the conclusion that this theology is the greatest hoax ever visited upon unsuspecting Christians. The hoax lives on. Despite of unfulfilled predictions, the thinking persists.

The Roots of the System
I embraced the Premillennial Dispensational way of thinking because it appeared to be the most reasonable explanation of the events that were occurring. It is the primary end-time position taught within much of modern Evangelical Christianity, even though all the predictions that have arisen as a result of this view have come to naught. What is the source of this teaching? How did it arise?

In 1832, Edward Irving (1792-1834) established the Catholic Apostolic Church and taught the imminent return of Jesus Christ. Irving believed there had to be a reestablishment of the 12 apostles before Jesus would return. He appointed these 12 apostles. Of course, one by one, they eventually died and Jesus never returned. John Nelson Darby, who founded the Plymouth Brethren in 1847 in England and Ireland, spearheaded the dispensational interpretation of the Bible. He was widely influenced by Edward Irving. Darby taught that Biblical history is divided into seven "dispensations" or periods of time. The final dispensation would be the 1000-year millennial reign of Christ on earth. An important key to understanding Dispensationalism is the notion that God will reestablish an earthly kingdom with the nation of Israel. For this reason, the events in Israel are of vital importance for the Premillennial Dispensationalist. Before the coming of Jesus, the temple would be rebuilt and the sacrificial system reinstated.

Because this kingdom was offered and then refused by the Jews, it would be offered again in the future. By crucifying Jesus, the Jews rejected the kingdom, but God did not reject Israel. As an after-thought or a parenthesis, Christ then went on to establish the church because Gentiles now believed what the Jews rejected. This is the "Church Age" spoken of by Dispensationalists and it must end before God can re-establish His primary work with the Jews. The church age ends with the rapture. Darby's Dispensational ideas caught on like wildfire in America, and were widely spread by the Scofield Reference Bible. Scofield, a layman, having studied Biblical prophecy for 30 years, added notes to the text of Scripture promoting Darby¹s Dispensational theology. Many Christians today regard Scofield's notes as being equally inspired as the Bible itself.

Apparently, however, neither Darby nor Scofield originated the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. Darby was inspired by a woman named Margaret MacDonald who reported a revelation given to her by God during a healing service in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in 1830. MacDonald reported that in her vision, there was a two-stage process to the Second Coming of Christ. The first stage, the rapture, removed the church from this world. Christians would be caught up before the great tribulation and be taken to heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus would return to earth and establish His millennial kingdom. These ideas were embraced by Darby, promoted by Scofield and developed more fully in many of the Bible schools like Moody, Fuller and especially Dallas Theological Seminary during the 20th century in the United States. Many of the more fanatical proponents of the premillennial view are graduates of Dallas Theological Seminary.

Bad Theology
This theological system is replete with errors.

1. The present-day nation of Israel is no more involved in God's plans for the future than is France, England, Germany, the United States, etc. The teaching of the New Testament is very clear - Jesus fulfilled everything pertaining to Israel and formed the New Israel, His church. It is an abomination to claim that the church is merely a parenthesis or an afterthought in the divine scheme of redemption. In fact, the Bible clearly states that the plans of God and the wisdom of God will be revealed in His church (Eph. 3:8-11).

2. Much of the "tribulation prophecy" in the Old Testament prophets, the Olivet discourses of our Lord Jesus, and the Book of Revelation was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. When Jesus said in Matt. 24:32-34 that "this generation will not pass away," He was not referring to some future generation that would see the political nation of Israel established by the United Nations. He was referring to the generation alive at the time He spoke the words. His words were fulfilled. In 70 A.D. Jerusalem was utterly destroyed. In fact, there is a view of Biblical prophecy called Preterism. Those who hold the view claim that all futuristic prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century.

3. The teaching of two "second comings" of Jesus is not Biblical. As the Apostles' Creed simply states, "From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead." On the mount of Ascension the angels told the disciples that He would come again in the same way they saw Him depart into heaven. Nowhere does the Bible teach two "second comings." The language of 1 Thess. 4:17 does not allow for the "rapture" teaching. The phrase "to meet the Lord" literally means "to meet for the purpose of welcoming back." The Greek phrase "to meet" ( eis apanthsin) is only used on four occasions in the New Testament. In each case it means to go out to meet for the purpose of welcoming. (See, for example, Acts 28:15.)

Conclusion

Premillennial Dispensationalism is a deceptive teaching. Those who promote these views and fill the minds of God's people with this nonsense are perpetrating a hoax.

Jesus is coming again. This is our glorious hope. Jesus told us to be about the business of preaching and teaching His Gospel and not speculate about His second coming. Those who believe in Jesus and trust His blood and righteousness for their salvation are prepared for His coming. "Even so, come Lord Jesus!"

The Great Premillennial HOAX by Don Matzat
http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/v1.htm

Linked from:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1527925/posts?page=300#300

bttt

1976... and I won't say where, but we were not all strangers. They were very sure of their practice, but you are absolutely right about not advertising...

I attended Bible College with the son of one of the members from that church. We went down over spring breadk, and believe me, I was not willing to join their practice. But, it was interesting to see the trance-like state they worked themselves into.

The pastor stood in the middle of a plywood "pen", where they dumped rattlers (at least most of them were rattling). They ranged from 2 to 4-4.5 ft in length. He passed them out. He has been bitten numerous times, but I assume has built up the necessary antibodies. Nobody got bit, while we were there. The snakes were taken from a refrigerator, and placed in the pen. I think it was to keep them from being too active... but they still writhed, when held!

Another friend, with us, passed out, when one was waved in her face! They thought she had been "slain in the Spirit"!

OTOH... ;>)

No kidding. "Isn't that special?" LOL
____________________________ ________________

It is so hysterically funny!!!!!

And I'm a pompous ass!!! I'm such an ass that I do this alot . . . ROFLMAO!!!! LOL!!! ROFL!!!!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Thanks, GWB, for the link to Edwards' great "On Religious Affections."

Isn't the internet amazing? I sent a link to Van Til's "Defending the Faith" to our son, and he actually read it, and is now reading the hard copy book.

There are so many wondrous truths of God right before our eyes it seems misguided to look for them in unintelligible utterings. From...

VAN TIL, THE THEOLOGIAN

...Man's knowledge is true "because," not in spite of, the fact that it is "analogical." Man's being and action are genuinely his own "because of" (again, not "in spite of") the more ultimate being and activity on the part of the will of God...

placeholder