Posted on 11/22/2005 11:31:08 PM PST by jec1ny
In Strong Terms, Rome Is to Ban Gays as Priests By IAN FISHER and LAURIE GOODSTEIN ROME, Nov. 22 - A new Vatican document excludes from the priesthood most gay men, with few exceptions, banning in strong and specific language candidates "who are actively homosexual, have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called 'gay culture.' "
The long-awaited document, which has leaked out in sections over the last few months, was published Tuesday in Italian by an Italian Catholic Web site, AdistaOnline.it.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Please, don't be fooled by this. Look at the paragraph in the 1961 statement and the current statement. Filter out what the media is telling you.
the whole pedophile business with the priests...minority that they are...is deeply seeded with the entry into the priesthood of gay men.....
sometimes what passes for pedophilia is simply homosexual advances......
the other thing is, if a priest is truely a pedophile...goes after very young children of either sex.....there is a covert relationship between him and gay priests because they have the "goods' on each other......there is a cover-up and a willingness to let things just pass....
This is a myth that always comes up but is simple to answer. At the Council of Rome in 382, the Church decided upon a canon of 46 Old Testament books and 27 in the New Testament. This decision was ratified by the councils at Hippo (393), Carthage (397, 419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442), and Trent (1546).Further, if Catholics added the deuterocanonical books in 1546, then Martin Luther beat us to the punch: He included them in his first German translation, published [before] the Council of Trent. They can also be found in the first King James Version (1611) and in the first Bible ever printed, the Guttenberg Bible (a century before Trent). In fact, these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. Until then, they had been included at least in an appendix of Protestant Bibles. It is historically demonstrable that Catholics did not add the books, Protestants took them out.
--- How to Defend the Deuterocanonicals
Some of the earliest official canon lists--along with quotes from the Church Fathers, whose writings referenced the deuterocanonical books just as they did the protocanonicals--can be found here: OLD TESTAMENT CANON
It should also be noted that the first-century Christians-including Jesus and the apostles-effectively considered these seven books canonical. They quoted from the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures that contained these seven books. More importantly, the deuterocanonicals are clearly alluded to in the New Testament.
--- Who Changed the Canon?
,,, the Pope needs to pour more acid on Bishops to keep them accountable. Each one has a virtual franchise and it should perform to the rules laid down. After all, it's a pecking order and the Pope doesn't make mistakes. Priests and Bishops should tow the line or do the Martin Luther trick and go their own way
,,, that's it. There's been a real need to reset the moral compass and this is a start, but there has to be action beyond the decree. Some hard arsed Cardinal should be appointed as a hatchet man to weed out those who should be weeded out - any doubts about what's what for him, he can check the Bible. I was a Catholic for 46 years.
Good for y'all. My family is still embroiled in the Episcopal thing. Can't wait to see how it all comes out.
What amazes me is:
1) how people ignore the reality of history. I mean, the evidence is there. The church from soon as they started writing about things, clearly believed in the role of bishops, the real presence, the veneration of saints, praying for the dead, the special role of the Blessed Mother, the primacy of Rome. When they didn't have enough water, they would do baptism by pouring. These things were written about before the year 200, every one of them, and most a good bit earlier. These are the people the Romans persecuted, who were executed public in torturous ways, who went to their deaths gladly for the glory of God.
2). How they think that God could set up a church that would go apostate when he PROMISED the gates of hell would not prevail against it (boy, this one says God is mall and insufficient to guard what he died so hard for). It's used also as the excuse for whatever their founding members believe is the correct approach to Christianity, no matter how far from the original reality they believe it to be. Some groups have favorite apostate times, like with the death of the last apostle, or the council of Nicea, or some other thing, that after this point the church is apostate because of some idea or other.
3). How they think it's their duty to come to threads that have nothing to do with evangelism, but instead, Catholic culture or current events to tell us what horrid apostates we are, how what we believe even if it goes back in unbroken succession to the beginning of the church is wrong, is wrong, that the scriptures we collected and were guided by the holy spirit to save, preserve and put into the canon tell them that we are great sinners, and do everything wrong.
Amazing.
FOURTH SESSION: DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES: "If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts [the 66 books of the Bible plus 12 apocryphal books, being two of Paralipomenon, two of Esdras, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Sophonias, two of Macabees], as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA."At any rate, I'm not interested in debating it on this thread. If you want to, I'm sure quite a number of people would love to discuss it on a thread in the Religion Forum.
Thanks for your kind words. On this day of Thanksgiving my wife and I want to wish you, and everyone, God's blessings and, for you especially, God's continued support to carry you through your church's struggles. We have friends who struggle with this in the ELCA and know how trying it is.
There is a rich English liturgical tradition of 450 years to draw upon.
It is not surprising that the 1928 BCP as adapted for Anglican Use parishes works better than a bad 40 year old translation developed and promoted by change the Church types.
Good news! Earlier this week, the pope met with 3 groups of bishops on their 'ad limina' visits. He took the Australians to task and have ordered them to clean up their dioceses. When the Brazilians noted a loss of 1% in their catholic population, B16 asked them to name the most popular Marian shrine in Brazil. He then told the bishops that he will be thre in May 2006. They were left speechless :-).
Each one has a virtual franchise and it should perform to the rules laid down
According to some bishops, they want more decentralization of power! During the papal conclave, catholic callers to a local radio talk show, spoke of the need for bishops to make more decisions without permission from the Holy See. In this diocese, that would have meant an increase in "gender neutral" liturgical texts. Needless to say, they were most upset when Cardinal Ratzinger was elected pope. B16 has now accelerated the process of tightening up the liturgy specifically to prevent tampering with these sacred texts.
How many in the media termed the new pontiff an "interim pope". Lol!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
God will see us through, can't wait to witness his glory.
Your scenario sent chills up my spine. I usually would have laughed it off, but after the CFR debacle, I don't put anything past our courts anymore.
(Of course, assuming Alito is confirmed, we might have a different court, but still my confidence is shaken.)
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