Posted on 11/22/2005 7:11:21 AM PST by nckerr
'Megachurches' draw big U.S. crowds
By Joyce Kelly and Michael Conlon
CHICAGO (Reuters) - On a recent Sunday at Willow Creek Community Church, a Christian rock band joined by dancing children powered up in the cavernous main hall, their images ablaze on several gigantic screens.
Thousands of worshipers from the main floor to the balcony and mezzanine levels were on their feet rocking to a powerful sound system. Outside cars filled a parking lot fit for a shopping mall. Inside some people drifted into small Bible study groups or a bookstore and Internet cafe for lattes, cappuccinos and seats by a fireplace.
This church near Chicago and others like it number their congregations in the thousands on any given Sunday in stadium-size sanctuaries; but in the end a major appeal of America's megachurches may be the chance to get small.
Institutions like California's Saddleback Church, Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois and Houston's Lakewood Church, each drawing 20,000 or more on a weekend, offer not just a vast, shared attraction but a path that tries to link individuals on a faith-sustaining one-to-one level beyond the crowd, observers and worshipers said.
Rick Warren, founder of California's Saddleback Church and author of the best-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," told a seminar held earlier this year by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life that about 20 churches in America have more than 10,000 in weekend attendance.
"These churches can do a ton of things that smaller churches can't," said Nancy Ammerman, professor of the sociology of religion at the Boston University School of Theology.
"They have the resources to produce a professional-quality production every weekend, with music (often specially composed for the occasion and backed by a professional ensemble) and video and lighting and computer graphics and a preacher who knows how to work a crowd," she said.
But they also support "dozens or even hundreds of specialized opportunities for people to get involved in doing things with a small group of others. If you want someone to talk to who really understands what it is like to parent an autistic child, you may find a whole support group in a megachurch," she added.
MORE CHOICE
"Or if you really love stock car racing, but hate being surrounded by drunken rowdies, you can go with a busload of your church friends. I wouldn't say that there are fewer rules in most of these churches. Most of them really expect people to get involved in ways that can have a profound impact on their lives. It's just that there are so many paths into involvement that a smaller church just can't match," Ammerman said.
That's part of what Richard and Nancy Sauser of Schaumburg, Ill., said they found at Willow Creek where they have been members for more than 10 years. They attend regularly with their daughters, ages 5 and 7. The 30-year-old church draws 20,000 weekend worshipers.
"Anything they put their minds to, they can pretty much do," he said, marveling at the power inherent in size. But he added, "Willow Creek has the resources to effectively execute on multiple facets of church life," through more than 100 different ministries.
Sauser said he does not attend Willow Creek for its size but for the teaching and the ministry.
When the thousands at Willow Creek break into smaller groups for Bible study, the men's ministry, the special needs ministry and the adult ministry, a lot of life change occurs. "In the small groups, that is where it really gets good," Sauser said.
When the crowds head for Willow Creek's parking lot, attendants in orange vests direct processions of cars into smoothly paved parking lots ahead of the 9 a.m. and 11 a.m. services. Inside, the throng moves through the hallways and up and down escalators and stairs, welcomed by smiling greeters.
Some drop off children at Sunday school.
On the first floor Danielle Jackola of Hoffman Estates, Illinois, a mother of two who recently moved to the area from California, has come in search of a church. After listening to dynamic lead pastor Gene Appel speak on family and passing the baton of faith from one generation to the next, she liked the message -- and the entertainment.
"I had never been to something like that. I think that is one of the ways of getting your numbers up ... to get the message across but to keep it fun and upbeat. And more contemporary to get more young families involved," she said a few days later -- after deciding to join the church.
SEARCH FOR MEANING
Scott Thuma, a sociologist of religion at Hartford Seminary in Connecticut, said his research indicates there are at least 1,200 U.S. Protestant churches which claim more than 2,000 weekly attendees.
Megachurches are addressing the needs of Americans who are disinterested in "traditional church" yet want to deepen a sense of meaning in their lives. Classes and volunteer ministry opportunities lead to a deeper commitment, he said.
"They have opened worship to the seeker and the unsaved rather than reserving Sunday worship for the saved and sanctified," Thuma added.
The three largest churches are Saddleback, Willow Creek and Houston's Lakewood. But Warren said the world has far larger churches, pointing to mammoth Christian congregations in Nigeria, South Korea and elsewhere.
Warren said U.S. Protestants have returned to the 19th century roots of the evangelical movement, emphasizing social issues such as caring for the sick, the poor and the powerless, and not just concentrating on personal salvation.
"The small group structure is the structure of renewal in every facet of Christianity, including Catholicism," Warren told the Pew forum. He said his church has 9,200 lay ministers leading more than 200 different ministries all over southern California with 2,600 small groups in 83 cities.
Isn't that how the Fabian Society got started?
Nothing wrong with good works...they are essential.
Personal salvation...the whole goal.
However, there's got to be something in there about discipleship or the thing peters out after a short time. IMO the pastor's main job is prayer and preaching of the Word.
Different people are different.
Some of the criticisms of some of the more famous mega-churches I agree with, I feel the same about one in particular criticized here (I won't name it in this remark); I would never go there.
I just found out that a particular member of my family, unchurched her whole life, who has lived a rather wild life, has suddenly been converted, and is in regular attendance at, you guessed it, the church I'm not going to name here. That particular minister does nothing for me, but there is no denying the change in the person I'm referring to.
Of course, if the conversion is genuine, and in this case it is, it isn't the preacher doing the work, it is God. The interesting thing is that God works using the tools at hand. The message (and the person that delivers that message) that reaches me doesn't reach everyone. And what a new believer needs isn't what an old believer needs. Its the whole meat versus milk thing. Sometimes I need the one, and sometimes the other.
If my walk has had to go through stages, over the course of my life, I have to grant that others must go through the same things. The person standing next to you isn't in the same place you are. What reaches him, what he needs to hear and to do, isn't the same as it is for you or me.
So, I'm not worried about my family member, I have observed that once God gets his hook in you, he is quite capable of leading you to where you need to be.
There are almost no non-believers out there. Many first-time attendees I've seen in church were backslidden or out of fellowship, and were moved, for a reason not readily apparent, to attend that day. They were moved to worship and sincerely pray within minutes, and to follow up with a pastor afterward.
Want do you want, a sign at the door saying, "Sorry, only the saved (with certificate) may enter"?
And you sincerely feel that is reverent and holy?
"I wasn't condescending, damn it. If I deign to condescend, trust me........you'll know it."
Well, if you weren't condescending, now you're menacing.
At any rate, accepting that youth groups are about association, then I would urge you to see what Scripture says about associating first and then seek a church which strives to follow that model. Cast aside your assumptions and go to the Bible first. What Scripture says about associating is profound, yet simple. And it doesn't list youth groups as one form of association that the church should promote. Rather it promotes inter-generational association and familiar association, under the authority of the elders in a local church. Nor does it list youth pastor as an office of the church. I'll keep waiting for a Scriptural reference on that.
Mainstream Christianity is losing teenagers. Check out this from Barna:
"the Barna statistics show that the percentage of teens who are evangelicals - i.e., those who are not only born again but also believe in the accuracy of the Bible, personal responsibility to evangelize, believe in salvation by grace alone, and possess orthodox biblical views on God, Jesus and Satan - have declined from 10% in 1995 to just 4% today. This demise is attributable to growing numbers of teenagers who accept moral relativism and pluralistic theology as their faith foundation."
Of course using that same criteria we are losing adults, also.
The point being, American Christianity needs to rethink itself. I would suggest going back to Biblical basics first. When we get those right, I would wager that things will start to look much better.
Finally, if you take a minute to check out the articles that I gave a link to, you can see much of this flushed out in greater detail and most importantly flushed out exegetically.
Today's song list:
Personal Jesus
Jesus is Just All Right
and the CHoir will sing Stairway to Heaven
Large Catholic churches are pro-abortion? That is news to this Catholic.
Offertory: Hey Big Spender.
Good Friday: Yesterday/Beatles. They wouldn't have to change any lyrics except for "why SHE had to go"
:)
"There are lots of things Dude doesnt know....he just wont entertain that notion. Put Dude on your prayer list, he's going on mine...I just feel sorry for him; he doesnt know the God of the Bible."
I'm thinking that your passive aggressive response has something to do with me....if you can correct anything I have posted with proper exegesis of Scripture, then I'm all ears. I have been wrong before ( such as when I attended a megachurch), so I'm eager to learn.
But if you don't accept that line of inquiry, ie, if you don't believe that exegeting Scripture is the source of truth, then, fair enough, we'll just have to agree to disagree. That would be a debate for a different thread. I am deeply interested in dialogue with those who accept sola scriptura, however.
More to the point:
>>When we sing "I just want to stop and thank you Jesus" - we mean it.<<
Then why do you sing that over, say, "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing"?
Don't forget Rick Warren's version of "Purple Haze".
I wonder if you could take "Eye of the Tiger", change the lyrics to reflect "Heart of the Christian", and have a pretty snappy church-tune?
That'll be sure to bring 'em in!
It is reverent. Only God is Holy.
You have to take a step back and examine what you are doing and why you are doing it. In my case, I am taking the gifts God gave me (musically), and giving them back to him as a sacrifice. Kind of like if you give your child some money, and he uses it to buy paper and crayons and draws you a picture.
Allah is a god who only wants awe from his worshippers. Allah is a false god. Our God, the one true God, is worthy of that kind of awe-struck worship, but he also requires something far more personal. He wants us to have a relationship with him, one that isn't based on awe or fear alone, but one more akin to a father-child relationship. He wants us to seek him.
Just a Closer Walk With Thee.
Draw Me Close.
They are the same song.
We do that one, too. Why is one wrong and the other right - if they both say the same thing?
Lyrically, it's the difference between "The Cat in the Hat", and "Hamlet".
Baby Aspirin vs. Ultra-Strength Excedrin
Similac vs. Whole Milk
"Want do you want, a sign at the door saying, "Sorry, only the saved (with certificate) may enter"?"
Again, and I dealt with this at length in a previous post, what I am saying is not that unbelievers should be halted at the door. And any inference to that effect is not a good faith effort to advance the dialogue. What I am saying is that the service itself should be structured to disciple believers. The way to do that is through teaching of the Word (exegetically), communion, fellowship and the breaking of bread, and prayer.
The objection to the seeker sensitive approach is simply that a) no one truly seeks after God (see the reference to Romans 3), b) if your overriding concern is to make the service attractive so as to reach more seekers, then you will necessarily dilute the Gospel message. The Gospel is not attractive in that way....it is in a very real sense offensive. Yet it is the only hope for people who are spiritually dead. If we pretend that they can have a fulfilled life and obtain the fruits of the Spirit without encountering the risen Saviour first (And that encounter coming through the Holy Spirit who works through the preaching of the Word), then we are deluded. But to encounter the Saviour, you have to know that you are a sinner. Which takes you back to the point that the full-throated, Biblical, Gospel message is not just good news. It is very very bad news...followed by the Good News. And it is likely to be very offensive to the man on the street who thinks the Today Show is just dandy.
Puff the Magic Dragon:
"Jesus the magic saviour lived by the sea
in a land called Galaleeeeeeeee"
Why do I have the feeling it's already been done!
Well, I'll just say as un-menacingly as possible here........ahem........that to in any way imply that we're "losing" kids due to youth groups or non-Biblical church structures is just plain silly. I have no interest in reading anything that seeks to imply a correlation. Besides, no one in their right mind could seriously suggest that a 21st-century American church needs to be set up exactly as a 1st-century church in the Middle East. Utter silliness.
As I also pointed out, these groups are not intended to replace inter-generational interactions, teachings, etc. Kids like to hang with other kids, and so that they aren't unequally yoked, as it were, they should hang with other Christian kids. It really is that simple.
If we're 'losing' kids, then we need to take a hard look at the FAMILY. Are Christian values being taught and reinforced at home? I know MANY Christian families who are really Christian parents with unbelievably bratty kids (or far worse). That's not just a Christian problem, it's an AMERICAN problem. Too many are afraid to discipline their own kids and teach them proper values..........and ENFORCE them.
"As He who called you is Holy, you also be holy in all your conduct. Since it is written, 'You shall be holy, since I am holy'" ~1 Peter 1:15
>>He wants us to have a relationship with him, one that isn't based on awe or fear alone<<
When it comes to God, awe and fear are essentially the same thing. "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom". The opposite of that would mean that having no fear of the LORD is the beginning of folly.
>>He wants us to have a relationship with him<<
God wants for nothing. Our chief end is not to be God's buddy, but to worship him with a contrite heart and a humble spirit.
>>He wants us to seek him.<<
The unsaved cannot seek God, and the saved have already been "found". Through the indwelling Holy Spirit we are to grow in grace - sanctifying ourselves - and part of that sanctification is shedding worldliness and a desire for fleshly amusements. Like crackin' tunes and happy-clappy catchy songs that are easy to remember.
You are correct. We do a service once a quarter where we do only Wesley songs (with a beat and crunchy guitars), and I can tell you, that was one one annointed songwriter. I LOVE hymns, especially Wesley's.
But the place we're trying to take the congregation to is a lot more accessible if they aren't sitting there trying to figure out what a "Fount" is. Language changes. Styles change. Only God is constant.
After all, Wesley was quite "contemporary" in his day - and his songs were supplanting the traditional music of the time (which he found unaccesible to his generation, I might add). He faced a lot of opposition.
Just repeat the verse 17 times in a row, and *presto*, you've got yourself a hit, my FRiend!
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