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To: ConservativeDude

Well, I'll just say as un-menacingly as possible here........ahem........that to in any way imply that we're "losing" kids due to youth groups or non-Biblical church structures is just plain silly. I have no interest in reading anything that seeks to imply a correlation. Besides, no one in their right mind could seriously suggest that a 21st-century American church needs to be set up exactly as a 1st-century church in the Middle East. Utter silliness.

As I also pointed out, these groups are not intended to replace inter-generational interactions, teachings, etc. Kids like to hang with other kids, and so that they aren't unequally yoked, as it were, they should hang with other Christian kids. It really is that simple.

If we're 'losing' kids, then we need to take a hard look at the FAMILY. Are Christian values being taught and reinforced at home? I know MANY Christian families who are really Christian parents with unbelievably bratty kids (or far worse). That's not just a Christian problem, it's an AMERICAN problem. Too many are afraid to discipline their own kids and teach them proper values..........and ENFORCE them.


177 posted on 11/22/2005 10:33:34 AM PST by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline

I have no problem that we have to look hard at the family. But when I have posted that that would include making use of the rather harsh Biblical teachings on divorce, I get a lot of flack from the "judge not" line of reasoning. At any rate, I'll assume we are in basic agreement on that.

Now, as to this:

"Besides, no one in their right mind could seriously suggest that a 21st-century American church needs to be set up exactly as a 1st-century church in the Middle East. Utter silliness."

I'm glad you clarified that, because it shows we are arguing from different premises. I believe in both the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture. And that is the historic teaching of most of the church. You obviously don't accept that Scripture sets forth the guidelines for a modern church, and I appreciate your candor. We'll just have to agree to disagree there because there is no way I can convince you otherwise. I can only say that I used to think that way, also....but then one day it occurred to me: if I am not going to go by a Biblical standard, then what IS the standard? I would like to hear what sources of authority are normative for those who don't accept the sufficiency of Scripture.

One thing from church history that is pretty clear to me is that when we adhere to Biblical norms, the Church flourishes (part of flourishing meaning being persecuted, obviously). Societies are transformed. Lives are saved and so on. When we do not, we suffer.

As time goes on, I tend to think that the Bible is more true, not less. But that's just me.


191 posted on 11/22/2005 11:06:20 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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