Chertoff to Hannity: Removing 10~11M ILLEGALS too expensive and impractical

FoxNews Channel: Hannity & Colmes ^ | November 14, 2005 | Transcript

[DTogo]

...HANNITY: Because you had made a controversial statement, and you seem to be backing off of it now, and it was that people that are here illegally, that they all ought to be sent back.

I'm paraphrasing.

And it seems like now you've sort of backed off that position a little bit, because there are million that we estimate that are in this country illegally.

Why wouldn't we send them back?

CHERTOFF: ...I also recognize we've got, according to some estimates, 10 to 11 million illegals already in this country working. And the cost of identifying all of those people and sending them back would be stupendous. It would be billions and billions of dollars...

HANNITY: Why — in that sense, aren't you really rewarding those that didn't respect our laws and sovereignty? In other words, OK, you're saying, you came into this country illegally.

Now that we've identified you, we're going to let you even stay longer and make money, and then you can go back in three to six years.

Why don't we say, no, you're here illegally, you didn't respect our laws, you ought to go home? Why don't we just say that?

CHERTOFF: Well, Sean, you know, it's really an issue of practicality.

I mean, as a practical matter, we've got to identify these people and pull them out of the shadows.

Now, this is not an amnesty. This is not — the president's proposal is not a path to citizenship. It's clearly temporary, and it clearly envisions people who would have to commit to go back....

[Czar]

"Chertoff is right."

So you say...

[taxed2death]

Point taken.

Miscommunication is just that, miscommunication, no problemo.

You still have not answered my question of what on Gods green earth do you have against law abiding legit business owners?

Why would you choose to pit them against tax cheats who have an unfair advantage?

Truth be told, my own businesses are not effected at all by illegals. But.... I have been witness to quite a few friends / customers / business associates who are small business owners who have been absolutely throttled by unscrupulous tax cheat scumbag employers who hire illegals by the boat load. Not only does this put an unfair tax burden on the general population, the government also loses tax revenue because these dirtbags hire "off the books".

Quite a few of these people I write about here found it simply impossible to stay in business and abide by the law.

Do you REALLY think that these tax cheat employers will KEEP their illegals once they are made "legal" by a shamnesty program?

Really?

C'mon, they'll just fire them and hire a new crew of illegals.

[bray]

Oh, now I'm not going to be able to sleep at night! We quizlings really care about what you think.

Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters

[Czar]

"We quizlingsquislings really care about what you think."

Yet you continue posting to me. Why would that be?

[hedgetrimmer]

Robots paint, clean toilets, and dig ditches. Even the average homeowner can afford a robotic lawnmower to mow their lawns today. In England you can get a robot that will exterminate the snails in your yard.

They are working on tiny robots that will eat the dust off your television screen and furniture.

[WatchingInAmazement]

This is for you and your open border bigot friends. You've been given stats, reports, studies many times here on FR and yet you ask for the same over again. I posted all the FR polls to you yesterday, which you ignored, as usual.

You are an internet forum terrorist, wanting only to waste the time of conservative Americans, white, black or hispanic, it doesn't matter to you. If you can succeed in disrupting our progress to fix a disaster that kills thousands of Americans every year, you accomplish your goal. Any death from an illegal alien is a preventable death, yet you justify that horror and never feel empathy for your fellow Americans living it.


You will find recently a Pew study that stated that half the illegal "immigrants" here are employed. What do you think the other half are doing?

[hedgetrimmer]

I really am a Trotskyite

If you believe you have a right to hire illegal immigrants (violating the will of the American people) and feel no obligation to the American people who foot the bill for all the social and infrastructure needs of those illegal immigrants, then you are something. But not an American.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

Housing and homeless programs help low-income Massachusetts households find housing and pay their rent, and offer prevention services and emergency shelter for the homeless. Most federally-funded programs only offer benefits to certain categories of noncitizens. State-funded and non-profit programs are usually open to anyone, including undocumented noncitizens.

More info and source: http://www.massresources.org/pages.cfm?ContentID=57&pageID=18&Subpages='yes'&DynamicID=740

In California, many Medi-Cal services and other public benefits are already available to illegal immigrants, with or without a valid ID [Matricula Card]. Nearly one-third of California's illegal aliens -- more than any other state -- already receive some form of government assistance. The possession of the matricula can only serve to exacerbate this problem.


More info and source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/26/ED8980.DTL&type=printable

. Food Stamps
“Qualified aliens” are ineligible for Food Stamps for a period of 5 years beginning on the date of an alien’s entry into the United States. (Sec 402 (a))

Exceptions to the 5-year ban on Food Stamps:

Children (under 18 years old). (Sec 402(a)(2)(J))
Aliens who were lawfully residing in the U.S. and were age 65 or older on August 22, 1996. (Sec 402(a)(2)(I))
Aliens who are receiving assistance for blindness or disability. (Sec 402(a)(2)(F))
Certain Indians. (Sec 402(a)(2)(G))
Certain Hmong and Highland Laotians. (Sec 402(a)(2)(K))
Refugees and Asylees, aliens whose deportation is being withheld, Amerasians, and Cuban/Haitian entrants, and victims of a severe form of trafficking. (Sec 402(a)(2)(A))
Veterans, members of the military on active duty, and their spouses and unmarried dependent children. (Sec 402(a)(2)(C))
Legal Permanent Residents who have worked 40 qualifying quarters of coverage. After 12/31/96, no quarter can be considered a “qualifying quarter” if the individual is receiving a “federal means­tested public benefit.” (See Section D below for the definition) Quarters worked by parents when the alien was a child, or by a spouse while married, may be counted by spouses and dependent children as satisfying the 40 quarter requirement. (Sec 402(a)(2)(B))

More info and source: http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/immigration/restrictions-sum.htm#sec1

Supplemental Security Income
Most qualified aliens who enter the US on or after August 22, 1996 are ineligible for SSI until they become U.S. citizens, which generally requires at least five years residency. (Sec 402(a))

Exceptions to the ban on SSI:

All aliens who were receiving SSI on August 22, 1996, retain eligibility for SSI (Sec 402(a)(2)(E) and Sec 401(b)(5)) and, if related to SSI receipt, Medicaid benefits. (Sec 402(b)(2)(F))
Qualified aliens lawfully residing in the US on August 22, 1996, who were not receiving SSI but are or become disabled in the future will also be eligible. (Sec 402(a)(2)(F))
Refugees and Asylees, aliens whose deportation is being withheld, Amerasians, and Cuban/Haitian entrants, and victims of a severe form of trafficking are exempted from the ban on SSI for their first 7 years in the U.S. (Sec 402(a)(2)(A))
Veterans, members of the military on active duty, and their spouses and unmarried dependent children. (Sec 402(a)(2)(C))
Legal Permanent Residents who have worked 40 qualifying quarters. After 12/31/96, no quarter can be considered a “qualifying quarter” if the individual received a “federal means­tested public benefit” during the quarter (See section D below for the definition of “federal means­tested public benefit”) Quarters worked by parents when the alien was a child, or by a spouse while married, may be counted by spouses and dependent children as satisfying the 40 quarter requirement. (Sec 402(a)(2)(B))

Source: Same as above

NOTE: "qualified Alein" is often an illegal alien.........

Qualified aliens include (Sec 431):

Legal Permanent Residents
Asylees
Refugees
Aliens paroled into the U.S. for at least one year
Aliens whose deportations are being withheld
Aliens granted conditional entry (prior to April 1, 1980)
Battered alien spouses, battered alien children, the alien parents of battered children, and alien children of battered parents who fit certain criteria
Cuban/Haitian entrants
Victims of a severe form of trafficking

Thus, we have millions of illegal aliens eligible for public assistance. They say that "undocumented immigrants" are not eligible, but they just re-categorize them as "refugees".

Anecdotal evidence: Before I married, I dated THREE women who I found out were all illegal aliens, and all three happened to be getting public assistance and two of the three had kids in schools.

Also, I'm sure than there are FR members here who work in the government that can tell you stories about how much public assistance (wealth transfer of our taxes from us to them) is going on.

Also, as you know or as you SHOULD know, the new Medicare Prescription Drug Bill had $2 billion funded for reimbursement to Arizona hospitals who are serving the illegal aliens free of charge. You know that.

The amount of free medical care and public assistance (food, housing, etc.) is bigtime. Do some research and yo will get your numbers.

[chronic_loser]

You've been given stats, reports, studies many times here on FR and yet you ask for the same over again.

That is a lie. No other way to say it.

[chronic_loser]

Lets take these one at a time. Housing and homeless programs help low-income Massachusetts households find housing and pay their rent, and offer prevention services and emergency shelter for the homeless. Most federally-funded programs only offer benefits to certain categories of noncitizens. State-funded and non-profit programs are usually open to anyone, including undocumented noncitizens.

More info and source: http://www.massresources.org/pages.cfm?ContentID=57&pageID=18&Subpages='yes'&DynamicID=740

Help me out on this and show me WHICH of these programs (I clicked on the link and could not find any) offer help to undocumented aliens (actually, a pc term for "illegal" which I do not shy away from).

[chronic_loser]

In California, many Medi-Cal services and other public benefits are already available to illegal immigrants, with or without a valid ID [Matricula Card]. Nearly one-third of California's illegal aliens -- more than any other state -- already receive some form of government assistance. The possession of the matricula can only serve to exacerbate this problem.

More info and source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/26/ED8980.DTL&type=printable

The land of fruits and nuts has yet one more lunatic program. 1) CA is a steppingstone for legal precedent I know, and that is bad. 2)What is the percentage of NON illegals who receive some type of assistance in CA? 3)I am a strong believer in the principle of "if you build it, they will come." In other words, if US citizens have a hard time saying "no" to proffered benefits, I am not sure I want to blame aliens for taking what is offered.

If I were in CA and that kind of stuff went on I might be a bit more militant. As it is, I live in NC. I would advise CA to change their laws so CITIZENS can keep more of those freebies!!!!! Get the illegals out so I can have MY turn at the trough!, or rather, shut down the trough. We probably are in agreement that CA has a real problem, if those stats are true, and I have no reason to doubt them. Point taken

[chronic_loser]

. Food Stamps “Qualified aliens” are ineligible for Food Stamps for a period of 5 years beginning on the date of an alien’s entry into the United States. (Sec 402 (a))

Exceptions to the 5-year ban on Food Stamps:

Children (under 18 years old). (Sec 402(a)(2)(J))
Aliens who were lawfully residing in the U.S. and were age 65 or older on August 22, 1996. (Sec 402(a)(2)(I))
Aliens who are receiving assistance for blindness or disability. (Sec 402(a)(2)(F))
Certain Indians. (Sec 402(a)(2)(G))
Certain Hmong and Highland Laotians. (Sec 402(a)(2)(K))
Refugees and Asylees, aliens whose deportation is being withheld, Amerasians, and Cuban/Haitian entrants, and victims of a severe form of trafficking. (Sec 402(a)(2)(A))
Veterans, members of the military on active duty, and their spouses and unmarried dependent children. (Sec 402(a)(2)(C))
Legal Permanent Residents who have worked 40 qualifying quarters of coverage. After 12/31/96, no quarter can be considered a “qualifying quarter” if the individual is receiving a “federal means­tested public benefit.” (See Section D below for the definition) Quarters worked by parents when the alien was a child, or by a spouse while married, may be counted by spouses and dependent children as satisfying the 40 quarter requirement. (Sec 402(a)(2)(B))

More info and source: http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/immigration/restrictions-sum.htm#sec1

I must have missed the percentages on that one. Could you show me specifically where you were showing me how many illegal aliens were on food stamps. I appreciate all the info about Hmong refugees and vets and all, but that really wasn't what I asked for.
You said there was a HIGH percentage of illegals on welfare. I asked for documentation on this. So far, we have seen some links to a Mass program that you think establishes that they are on state programs. I could not find any evidence of eligibility, much less enrollment, and asked you to clarify. Then you posted that 33 per cent of CA illegals are on some kind of assistance. Touche, and I agreed that is awful. A few questions on that, but your point stands. Then you post some fed regs on everyone who is eligible for food stamps. I have to say again, you have not answered the question at all, which is to ask if you have any evidence that "large percentages of illegals are on welfare." The cursory look I took at your link here doesn't even seem to establish eligilibility, much less enrollment.

[chronic_loser]

sorry for the previous boldface. I will try and remember to switch it off.

Supplemental Security Income Most qualified aliens who enter the US on or after August 22, 1996 are ineligible for SSI until they become U.S. citizens, which generally requires at least five years residency. (Sec 402(a))

This has nothing to do with illegal aliens on SSI. NOTE: "qualified Alein" is often an illegal alien.........
Not from your list (below)
Qualified aliens include (Sec 431):

Legal Permanent Residents
Asylees
- nope
Refugees
- nope
Aliens paroled into the U.S. for at least one year
-Maybe
Aliens whose deportations are being withheld
-Maybe
Aliens granted conditional entry (prior to April 1, 1980)
-nope
Battered alien spouses, battered alien children, the alien parents of battered children, and alien children of battered parents who fit certain criteria
-Maybe
Cuban/Haitian entrants
-nope
Victims of a severe form of trafficking
-nope
Most of these people are granted legal residence. The ones not legal are a bit low to establish the "high percentage" of illegals supposedly on welfare.

[chronic_loser]

Thus, we have millions of illegal aliens eligible for public assistance.

No you don't. You have California, and a bunch of links that I have not seen where they establish your point at all. How much is a million times nothing?

[chronic_loser]

You still have not answered my question of what on Gods green earth do you have against law abiding legit business owners?

I am sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical flourish. I sometimes call them "throwaway questions."

I will be happy to answer it if you will tell me in all sincerity that you really believe I have something against them, and that is why I hold to a "shamnesty" program as the best way to approach the mess we now have.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

In the exception list, they list under 18. That means whether they are illegal aliens or not, kids under 18 are eligible. Also, it lists Haitians and Cubans, regardless of status.

You mentioned Apopka, Florida. Just so happens I have spent much time in areas around "The Indoor Foliage Capital of the World" (Apopka), and I have seen quite a few illegal aliens who work the fern farms. My observations tell me that it seems when some of the guys are working, the women are in the homes.

We were out at Wekiva State Park near that town having a nice BBQ and struck up a conversation in Spanish with some illegals. The girl was a real fox. Anyway, I know she came along into the USA just for the ride to be with her friends. She did not work--some of the others did. My wife got the impression from her conversation that they received some sort of assistance and not all of the group actually worked--she definitely did not work.

I believe what you see in CA (33% getting public assistance) is similar to the rest of the country. I believe that 33% figure is low. Many of these stats are based on older data, and the surge of the invasion in the last few years increased the percentage of nonworkers, as many who came pre-Bush, pre-surge had a higher percentage who actually worked.

It will be very hard to find hard stats, although CA does have some, as we saw above. Living here in Florida, I have seen it first hand (women I have dated) and have heard stories from others. One of my clients worked in a non-profit organization that helped low income people and she said there are hoardes of illegal aliens finding ways to draw public assistance. It bothered her so much she took early retirement.

[zbigreddogz]

You may consider yourself a loyal American conservative. I do not.

Oh geeze! My self-esteem lies in ruins! Now I'm completely convinced I'm wrong! Oh, tell me what I can do to be back in your good graces!

Feel free to come back and apply again when you don’t have to hang so many “ifs, ands and buts” onto your answers.

I'd rather choke to death on my own vomit then allow an arrogant, condencending, elitist, judgemental jerk like you to tell me what I believe, or to allow you to define me in ANY way. Have a nice life.

[chronic_loser]

Also, it lists Haitians and Cubans, regardless of status.
If a Cuban makes it to the USA, s/he is eligible to stay. I don't know of any way a Cuban living here COULD be "illegal"...., unless we reinstall Janet Reno and bring back Elian. Your point about being under 18 being eligible is valid. I just don't ever see any stats on people actually documenting illegals on welfare. My experience (entirely anecdotal, admittedly) is they try and stay under the radar. Half of them won't even use banks. Again, I am looking for data.

I am libertarian, have been for a long time, and am extremely liberal... with MY money. When it comes to YOUR money (via taxes) it is my opinion that I do NOT have a right to YOUR money to help Pablo, or Jaques, or Tong Gui, or Bill or Harry or Susie. It is government mandated theft, and I am no more pissed off that it goes to an illegal than I would be if it went to a citizen. As an aside on that point, I believe there is enough resistance to the concept of federal/state benefits to non-citizens (NOT just illegals), that an amnesty program conditioned on some type of nationalized Prop 200 principles (which was a WONDERFUL piece of legislation, btw!... state oriented, local provisions, local control) could well be a springboard to rolling back the whole welfare state. Bear with me just a moment to explain:
The whole REASON for the welfare stuff (at least the Great Society stuff) was essentially the argument that since blacks were unequal and disadvanaged, the gov't needed to give a hand. If you had a whole NEW minority subculture who came in, succeeded and prospered WITHOUT fed bennies, you can make a much more powerful argument against the whole welfare state (it really IS destructive to initiative, enslaving, demotivating, and harmful).

It is just that I see SO MUCH GOOD in the latino community that I want to cheer for them, and I really get my hackles up when I see stuff that I think portrays them as shiftless, cheats, thieves, criminals and worse.

[nicmarlo]

So true!

[chronic_loser]

Do you REALLY think that these tax cheat employers will KEEP their illegals once they are made "legal" by a shamnesty program?
Really?

Yeah. I really do. You (I think) believe that the only reason (or at least a big reason) Americans hire illegals is because they work "under the table" and they can thus screw over the guy doing it fairly. -- is that an accurate statement?

I -- otoh -- believe that this is a minor factor, and is only big in the eyes a few bad apples. What employers want is workers who show up sober, on time, work hard, and expect to be paid what they are owed.
Entry level workers like this among Americans born here are HARD to find. Freepers hate to hear it on these threads but it is the God's honest truth.
Further, the illegals working in the food service industry, in the hotel industry, in the construction industry, and in the other various service industry are NOT paid "slave wages." Framing carpenters here demand 14 dollars an hour whether they have a green card or not. That is the prevailing wage. Journeyman plumbers demand 20 - 22. Electricians get 15 an hour. Workers at Wendy's here get 7.50 and hour, and cashiers at Food Lion get 8 an hour. These are prevailing wages and there is no widespread "two tier" system in hotels, restaurants, or other institutions who employ large numbers of immigrants, legal or no.

The worst problem we have here is contractors who will employ a crew, let them finish a job and then refuse to pay, or refuse to pay on a timely basis, knowing that they will be afraid to go to the law about it.