Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom

Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

[Crackingham]

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said Saturday that he doesn't believe that intelligent design belongs in the science classroom. Santorum's comments to The Times are a shift from his position of several years ago, when he wrote in a Washington Times editorial that intelligent design is a "legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in the classroom."

But on Saturday, the Republican said that, "Science leads you where it leads you."

Santorum was in Beaver Falls to present Geneva College President Kenneth A. Smith with a $1.345 million check from federal funds for renovations that include the straightening and relocation of Route 18 through campus.

Santorum's comments about intelligent design come at a time when the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power, an alternative to the theory of evolution, has come under fire on several fronts.

A federal trial just wrapped up in which eight families sued Dover Area School District in eastern Pennsylvania. The district's school board members tried to introduce teaching intelligent design into the classroom, but the families said the policy violated the constitutional separation of church and state. No ruling has been issued on the trial, but Tuesday, all eight Dover School Board members up for re-election were ousted by voters, leading to a fiery tirade by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson.

Robertson warned residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city."

Santorum said flatly Saturday, "I disagree. I don't believe God abandons people," and said he has not spoken to Robertson about his comments.

Though Santorum said he believes that intelligent design is "a legitimate issue," he doesn't believe it should be taught in the classroom, adding that he had concerns about some parts of the theory.

[durasell]

Also, I've met many scientists over the years. Many, if not most, hold deeply felt religious beliefs. Some are evangelicals.

My point is that the way the debate is being framed is harmful. You have even fallen into the trap with use of the word Marxist. To be perfectly honest, Marxism has nothing to do with ID or evolution. It's a very specific economic/social doctrine based on the writings of Karl Marx. But summoning Marx as an insult is the kind of imprecise thing that drives scientists crazy.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Listening to the crickets chirping while waiting for the link between evolution and dialectic materialism and communism Placemarker.

[js1138]

Marx had a time machine. He read Origin of Species in 1847.

[Dead Dog]

What part of my statement are you denying:

A. Communism is based off of Dialectic Materialism?
b. Dialectic Materialism is based in Darwinism?

I'm actually baffled that this would even be a point of contention. This is not to say Darwin was a communists, or a Nazi either, (he's tied to them through the Eugenics movement). I have no idea if he would have approved of these associations or not. However, Darwin is the basis of Dialectic Materialsim

from:
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj71/darwin.htm

"The impact of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution was undoubtedly revolutionary. Marx's response to the appearance of The Origin of Species in 1859 is well known. In a letter to Ferdinand Lassalle he wrote:


Darwin's book is very important and serves me as a natural-scientific basis for the class struggle in history... Despite all deficiencies, not only is the death-blow dealt for the first time here to 'teleology' in the natural sciences, but its rational basis is empirically explained.2 "

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Marx had a time machine. He read Origin of Species in 1847."

This claim is that Darwin was using Dialectic Materialism to formulate his theory. It's a similar if still ridiculous accusation.

[after dark]

I would never insult someone by calling them a Marxist ,but I am assuming that some of the outrageouse things being written against children who are taught ID come from a desire to destroy those religions which preach ID. Marxist is really the most innoccuous thing I could call those people.Maybe I could call them commies or leftists (not to insult those who are left handed). Communists thought they could beat religion with Darwin.
I don't question the motives of people who admire Darwins work. I admire his work. I just think many of those posting regard discussions on Darwin as open season on Christian Evangelicals. I suspect many of the people spewing hate on ID aren't interested in scientific progress. They are just intersted in furthering the moral collapse of our society. The irony is Darwin was a stuffy Victorian man. Intuition tells me many of those posting their support for Darwin's Theory are as far as you can get from Darwin.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"What part of my statement are you denying:

A. Communism is based off of Dialectic Materialism?
b. Dialectic Materialism is based in Darwinism? "

B. Hegel was long dead before Darwin published. Marx published Communist Manifesto 9 years before Darwin did the Origin of Species. Darwinism is based in science.

"However, Darwin is the basis of Dialectic Materialsim."

Horse Manure. He can't be the basis for something that existed long before he ever published.

"Darwin's book is very important and serves me as a natural-scientific basis for the class struggle in history."

This shows Marx's inability to understand what Darwin was saying. It had nothing to do with *class struggle*.

"... Despite all deficiencies, not only is the death-blow dealt for the first time here to 'teleology' in the natural sciences, but its rational basis is empirically explained.2 "

What's the *deficiencies* in Darwin's theory according to Marx that was cut out of this quote? And how can Darwin be the cause of something that happened before him?

[js1138]

This claim is that Darwin was using Dialectic Materialism to formulate his theory. It's a similar if still ridiculous accusation.

Actually Darwin modeled natural selection from the invisible hand of Aadm Smith. The evils of social Darwinism are the same as the evils of unmitigated cpitalism.

[durasell]

For anyone who is interested, Darwin was actually a reader of Herbert Spencer (who came up with the phrase "survival of the fittest" as an economic term).

I doubt there is any attempt to destroy Christian evangelicals on the part of the Darwin followers. I would guess that they see a religious belief system as an intrusion into their scientific territory. They feel, rightly or wrongly, that they are repelling the attackers.

[furball4paws]

You said children with perfect math scores from evangelical schools should not receive remedial science at universities.

Math scores have nothing to do wih Science. The lack of science (Physics, Chemistry and Biology) in HS means that the kids have to either avoid science or make it up. You think they should be dumped into a class with no background?

[Dead Dog]

I have no problem with evolution, and it presents no conflict with my faith.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Actually Darwin modeled natural selection from the invisible hand of Adam Smith. The evils of social Darwinism are the same as the evils of unmitigated capitalism."

And guess where the economists of the later 18th century got many of their ideas about free markets and invisible hands: From naturalists studying the *economy of nature* as it was called (which included ideas like struggle).

[js1138]

Equating math scores with science is like equating spelling and grammar with writing. Math is essential for science, but it's just a building block.

[furball4paws]

Yes I went to public school, before they deteriorated to today's state. That's why I know what science is, something you obviously do not know.

[furball4paws]

Actually, I shook Newton's hand, congratulated him and took him out to lunch. We had a great conversation.

[b_sharp]

"ToE (as a theory of creation) ie Darwinism, is directly linked to Dialectic Materialism (or Scientific Socialism) which is the core of Communism. The link is an undeniable historic fact."

The ToE is not a theory of creation. Any putative link between the ToE and Communism is completely irrelevant to the validity of the ToE. It is simply an attempt to invalidate the ToE through a form of 'guilt by association'. Rather poor debate tactics.

[durasell]

I thought TOE was Theory of Everything...

I must be out of date...

[after dark]

What makes you think chemistry and physics can't be taught without teaching Darwin's theory of evolution?

Last time I looked most biology classes do not discuss Darwin in depth .


One of the main reasons our students aren't that good in science is because most of our students are illiterate in math. Good math skills are essential to being good in science.


Schools which dump evangelicals into dummy classes will lose some sharp people ,and they should be cut off financially. Religious discrimination is illegal.

[durasell]

Read the last dozen or so posts. Do you see where an impartial observer would think that we've taken leave of our senses?

[PatrickHenry]

500