Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom

Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

[Crackingham]

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said Saturday that he doesn't believe that intelligent design belongs in the science classroom. Santorum's comments to The Times are a shift from his position of several years ago, when he wrote in a Washington Times editorial that intelligent design is a "legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in the classroom."

But on Saturday, the Republican said that, "Science leads you where it leads you."

Santorum was in Beaver Falls to present Geneva College President Kenneth A. Smith with a $1.345 million check from federal funds for renovations that include the straightening and relocation of Route 18 through campus.

Santorum's comments about intelligent design come at a time when the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power, an alternative to the theory of evolution, has come under fire on several fronts.

A federal trial just wrapped up in which eight families sued Dover Area School District in eastern Pennsylvania. The district's school board members tried to introduce teaching intelligent design into the classroom, but the families said the policy violated the constitutional separation of church and state. No ruling has been issued on the trial, but Tuesday, all eight Dover School Board members up for re-election were ousted by voters, leading to a fiery tirade by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson.

Robertson warned residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city."

Santorum said flatly Saturday, "I disagree. I don't believe God abandons people," and said he has not spoken to Robertson about his comments.

Though Santorum said he believes that intelligent design is "a legitimate issue," he doesn't believe it should be taught in the classroom, adding that he had concerns about some parts of the theory.

[Dimensio]

Your own side admits it.

Citation for this admission?

(I now eagerly wait to see if DoughtyOne provides a cop-out or a mined quote)

[b_sharp]

"Fine, then remove the unproven 'theory' of evolution from science classrooms. I have no problem with it. Thanks.

By the way you emphasized the word 'theory' is sounds like you think that theories are somewhat less than what should be taught. This shows a lack of understanding of how science works. No problem, this is common among creationists. Let me explain it to you.

Nothing in science is based on proof, or proofs, but on statistical analysis of evidence that provides us with a level of confidence that the theory is valid. So, number one, asking for proof is erroneous. Asking for evidence would be correct.

A theory is made up of a number of hypotheses, from one to however many are developed, that have been tested and found to give a high level of confidence. In other words, a theory has already been tested and verified. As you can see this pretty much is counter to your statement about 'unproven theories'.

[PatrickHenry]

But it's "just a theory"

[Fruitbat]

Being conservative has nothing to do with evolution or ID. For you to suggest otherwise is not correct.

I would strongly suggest otherwise and I think it's highly remiss for you to suggest that. ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo. Evolution is nothing short of a theory well short on facts and data yet one that has simply been embraced, largely by people on the left, simply b/c their not embracing it indicts much of the basis for their thinking generally and particularly speaking.

I'll leave it for you to consider which ideology, conservatism or liberalism is the one that is short on facts, truth, and bases for their arguments and which is founded on truth, facts, and solid foundations for their arguments!

Cordially!

[ICE-FLYER]

You failed to understand my point.

No, I really did not. I just don't see that these people are dictating any such religion to you or anyone else. And I don't see them doing it "despite" the scientific evidence, I see them doing it with it. Your argument presumes that they think nothing of science and that science has no place with God. I say thats nonsense.

[Dimensio]

ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo.

State some of these facts.

Evolution is nothing short of a theory

What else would you expect it to be?

[Junior]

The CrevoSci Archive Just one of the many services of Darwin Central "The Conspiracy that Cares"

• PatrickHenry's famous List-O-Links
• Webster's On-Line Dictionary:  Creationist

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

1. 2005-11-13 Intelligent Design Grounded in Science
2. 2005-11-13 Intelligent Design, Part 1
3. 2005-11-13 Pope states the universe is a product of an 'intelligent project'
4. 2005-11-13 Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom
5. 2005-11-12 [Kansas Gov. Kathleen] Sebelius criticizes State Board of Education's move [new science standards]
6. 2005-11-12 ID [Intelligent Design] Opens Astronomer’s Mind to Universe’s Surprises
7. 2005-11-11 A revolution for evolution - Intelligent design must not replace hard science in classrooms.
8. 2005-11-11 Dover results disputed: School board candidate says machine was faulty
9. 2005-11-11 FR Debate: Intelligent Design vs. Birth Defects, Can They Be Reconciled?
10. 2005-11-11 Potential Origins of Europeans Found
11. 2005-11-11 The Real Evil of Evolutionary Humanism
12. 2005-11-10 Culture War Briefing, weekday news guide
13. 2005-11-10 Fossils of fierce-looking dinosaur found in Argentina (Godzilla)
14. 2005-11-10 Is Intelligent Design a Bad Scientific Theory or a Non-Scientific Theory?
15. 2005-11-10 Kansas educators clear way for evolution criticism
16. 2005-11-10 Pat Robertson has a message for Dover, PA: Don't ask God to help.
17. 2005-11-10 Pat Robertson Warns Pa. Town of Disaster
18. 2005-11-10 US states divide over creationism [the view from the UK]
19. 2005-11-10 Why the conspiracy theorizing about theories? (Freeper op-ed)
20. 2005-11-09 Anti-Evolution School Board Ousted
21. 2005-11-09 Dover CARES sweeps election (Intelligent Design loses big)
22. 2005-11-09 Evolution Suffers Kansas Setback
23. 2005-11-09 Gigantic Apes Coexisted With Early Humans, Study Finds
24. 2005-11-09 'Intelligent Design' Wins In Kansas
25. 2005-11-09 Patent issued for anti-gravity device
26. 2005-11-09 Science to ride gravitational waves
27. 2005-11-09 Shifting Icebergs May Have Forced Penguin Evolution
28. 2005-11-09 Shifting Icebergs May Have Forced Penguin Evolution
29. 2005-11-08 Bloodthirsty 'Vampire' Spider Found
30. 2005-11-08 Down for the Count (Sleep & Evolution)
31. 2005-11-08 Federal lawsuit could follow board vote [Evolution in Kansas & Dover]
32. 2005-11-08 Kansas education board downplays evolution
33. 2005-11-08 Kansas State Board Approves Teaching Standards Skeptical of Evolution
34. 2005-11-08 Math problems too big for our brains
35. 2005-11-08 RATE research reveals remarkable results—a fatal blow to billions of years (Evolution loses)
36. 2005-11-08 The 'Vatican' Endorses 'Darwin'? ['Vatican' has done no such thing
37. 2005-11-07 [Kansas] Board Votes on Evolution (Tomorrow, NOV 8 - Teaching I.D. to be approved!)
38. 2005-11-07 A pope for our times: why Darwin is back on the agenda at the Vatican
39. 2005-11-07 An Evolutionist's Evolution [Huge exhibit at Museum of Nat. History, NYC]
40. 2005-11-07 Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
41. 2005-11-07 Good genes beat good homes as guide to pupils’ school Success
42. 2005-11-07 Kennewick Man, Meet Your Distant Cousins
43. 2005-11-07 Prehistoric skull found in dump may be missing common ancestor of apes & humans

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CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of November:
 

2000-11-29 An.American.Expatriate 2000-11-10 AncientAirs 2000-11-21 AndrewC 1998-11-18 angelo 2000-11-10 beavus 1999-11-22 Blood of Tyrants 2003-11-26 blowfish 2004-11-08 CarolinaGuitarman 1997-11-28 cd jones 2001-11-30 claptrap 2001-11-16 CobaltBlue 2005-11-10 culturewars 2002-11-21 DannyTN 2004-11-16 DaveLoneRanger 1997-11-30 Ditto 2001-11-16 dmz 2000-11-11 Ernest_at_the_Beach

2000-11-02 Exit 109 2004-11-05 FeeinTennessee 2000-11-22 FFIGHTER 2000-11-12 ForGod'sSake 2001-11-07 FourtySeven 2000-11-15 freespirited 2000-11-10 Godel 2004-11-06 GreenOgre 2004-11-03 Grey Rabbit 2000-11-04 harbinger of doom 2000-11-28 HiTech RedNeck 1999-11-05 Ichneumon 1998-11-13 jennyp 1998-11-25 Junior_G 2002-11-17 Just mythoughts 2004-11-11 kaotic133 2003-11-18 little jeremiah

1998-11-18 malakhi 2000-11-19 Mike Fieschko 2004-11-24 mista science 2003-11-09 MplsSteve 2000-11-06 mrjeff 1999-11-05 muleskinner 2003-11-17 Nathan Zachary 2002-11-12 NCLaw441 1999-11-25 Nebullis 2000-11-13 NYer 2000-11-24 old-ager 2004-11-03 PajamaHadin 2000-11-10 Patriotic Teen 1998-11-01 Pharmboy 2000-11-11 P-Marlowe 2000-11-16 presidio9

1999-11-08 Pyro7480 2002-11-14 Remedy 2000-11-30 Right Wing Professor 2004-11-18 rightwinggoth 1998-11-15 rob777 1998-11-04 RobRoy 2004-11-01 SeasideSparrow 2004-11-05 shadowfighter 1999-11-16 TerP26 2004-11-13 This Just In 2000-11-04 TigerTale 2004-11-11 untrained skeptic 2004-11-21 VictoryGal 2001-11-25 Vote 4 Nixon 2000-11-05 will of the people 2003-11-29 woodb01

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In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:

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1LongTimeLurker ALS angelo Area Freeper Aric2000 Askel5 Asphalt biblewonk bluepistolero churchillbuff claptrap codebreaker Con X-Poser ConservababeJen DittoJed2 dob

Ed Current f.Christian followerofchrist general_re goodseedhomeschool gopwinsin04 gore3000 IllumiNOTi JediGirl JesseShurun JethroHathaway jlogajan Justice Avenger Kevin Curry kharaku knowquest

Land of the Irish Le-Roy malakhi Marathon medved metacognative mikeharris65 missyme Modernman n4sir NoKinToMonkeys Ogmios peg the prophet Phaedrus Phoroneus pickemuphere

ReasonedThought ret_medic RickyJ SeaLion Selkie Shubi SplashDog The Loan Arranger Tomax tpaine Truth666 twittle Unalienable WaveThatFlag xm177e2

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Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!

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Lost CrevoSci Battlefields (Pulled Threads)

• 2004-04-27 Stop Teaching Our Kids this Evolution Claptrap!
• 2003-10-29 The Mystery of the Missing Links (Intelligent Design vs. Evolution)
• 2003-10-27 Physics Nobelist Takes Stand on Evolution
• 2003-10-23 Gene Found for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
• 2003-10-21 Artificial Proteins Assembled from Scratch
• 2003-09-23 Solar System Formation Questions
• 2003-07-18 Unlikely Group May Revive Darwin Debate [Evolution v. Creationism]
• 2003-07-02 "Unlocking the Mystery of ""Unlocking the Mystery of Life"""
• 2003-06-26 Darwin Faces a New Rival
• 2003-06-06 Amazing Creatures
• 2002-09-13 Oldest Known Penis Is 100 Million Years Old
• 2002-04-10 (Creationists) CRSC Correction
• 2001-08-28 The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [6th Revision]
• 2001-08-26 A Scientific Account of the Origin of Life on Earth [Thread I]
• 2001-01-13 A Christian Understanding of Intelligent Design
• 2000-10-10 Another Lost Generation?
• 2000-08-30 Evil-Ution
• 1999-11-14 Creationism's Success Past 5 Years: (Gallup: 1 in 10 hold secular evolutionist perspective)

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Longest CrevoSci Thread Ever

• 2002-12-11 Evolution Disclaimer Supported (6,871 replies)

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Glossary of Terms

Assumption: Premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"
Belief: Any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith
Crevo:  Creation vs. evolution
CrevoSci:  Creation vs. evolution/Science
CrevoSci Warriors:  Those who take part on CrevoSci threads
Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions
Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
Fact: When an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact
Freepday:  The day a Freeper joined Free Republic
Hypothesis: A tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"
Impression: A vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"
Law: A generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"
Observation: Any information collected with the senses
Theory: A well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

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official beer
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[Rudder]

As I said in an earlier post, we're dealing with people who have no kinship to, no education in and no understanding of science. They insist, in their arguments here, that science conform to their uninformed beliefs.

[Petronski]

I don't think God abandons people. I think people abandon God.

[FreeReign]

...evolution has been sustained as a scientific theory for 146 years. That's longer than most current scientific theories of physics and chemistry have been sustained. Intelligent design has been sustained as a scientific theory for a grand total of zero years. To be clear, that's zero followed by an infinite number of zeros.

Yes, the fossil record is replete with evidence of evolving species.

[Fruitbat]

I guess Santorum doesn't want to be re-elected after all.

Apparently not since all he appears to be is a Specter in training. The Dims certainly aren't going to support him.

[durasell]

What else would you expect it to be?


It should slice, dice and splice the genes of mutant mice. It should be a juicer and a boost my gas mileage to over 102 per gallon. I'd like to take it out to the zoo and buy it red balloons and funnel cake. And it should keep the ice cream in my fridge from going melty, cure hang-overs, clip my toe nails and walk the dog.

[Rebel_Ace]

Actually, I had a rather odd thought. I wonder what ID'ers think about genetic manipulation. I mean, if the course of all biology on Earth was steered and managed, then they should have no problem with Humans tinkering around with the DNA sequences to "tweak" an attribute or two. After all, that would by definition be "Intelligent Design".

I would be willing to guess these folks would be against that.

[DoctorMichael]

".....Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom........"

Thank God someones got some sense!!!!!!!!!!

[LogicWings]

You're going to get tired saying the same thing over and over. It gets old.

I am already tired. People like you wear me out by refusing to understand what I am saying.

The message is timeless. It will be true a million years from now if the human race still exists. That is the point. It is ancient and it is timeless, some truths are eternal and have to be stated again and again.

I have no use for stupid people. They have murdered millions. Only logical, rational, ruthlessly truthful people are going to change anything.

Go have fun. You might grow up some day. Life is more than having fun.

[ICE-FLYER]

Stop trashing language and the meaning of words. Thinking that the Theory of Evolution is an accurate portrayal of the reality of how species differentiated is not "faith."
"Faith" is a belief in the supernatural. Evolution rejects the notion of a supernatural.

Interesting, Evolution is a theory, has much evidence to support, and to suggest, but is not clearly and fully realized yet you believe in it. That DOES require some faith. Your faith is that the undiscovered will be discovered and answer the blanks. fill in the gaps, or to use a phrase fill in those "missing" links.

Don't lecture me on trashing of words and their meanings. You are conveniently predisposed to evolution being on solid enough ground as to be perfect in its presentation when it is still a work in much progress requiring more. Faith has meaning for you as well, here is your definition :Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

[Fruitbat]

The sad thing is I'm not even an aficionado of ID, but he did advocate it before and now he's flipping. I would rather elect a consistent, obvious lefty than a GOP waffler who'll screw you when you least expect it and need them on your side.

What this more than likely means is that Santorum really isn't that bright a bulb. It shows that he's likely not reasoned any of this out himself, even less reason to support him. If he had, then he'd not have changed his position.

I know of absolutely no one that upon reviewing the evidence pro/con for both theories in an intellectually honest and objective manner that has chosen evolution for any reason whatsoever.

[WildTurkey]

ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo.

You do know that ID means man evolved from a simple organism over millions of years ...

[Sun]

"Ah, this is just typical MSM pitting one religious person against another. Santorum is Catholic so he is pro-evolution."

Maybe Santorum reads to read THIS:

“Further, he (the Pope) seems to be cautioning those who have been claiming Church endorsement of the full-bodied, design-defeating version of Darwin's theory of evolution, which, after all, is often little more than philosophical materialism applied to science,” added Chapman.

Chapman noted that in his very first homily as Pope, Benedict XVI had rebuked the idea that human beings are mere products of evolution, and that, like his predecessor, John Paul II, the new Pope has a long record of opposition to scientific materialism.

excerpt from: http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=3015&program=News&callingPage=discoMainPage

[AntiGuv]

Yes, the fossil record is replete with evidence of evolving species.

It sure looks that way! I'm glad you've noticed.