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Is US becoming hostile to science?
Reuters ^ | 10/28/5 | Alan Elsner

Posted on 10/28/2005 3:29:36 PM PDT by Crackingham

A bitter debate about how to teach evolution in U.S. high schools is prompting a crisis of confidence among scientists, and some senior academics warn that science itself is under assault. In the past month, the interim president of Cornell University and the dean of the Stanford University School of Medicine have both spoken on this theme, warning in dramatic terms of the long-term consequences.

"Among the most significant forces is the rising tide of anti-science sentiment that seems to have its nucleus in Washington but which extends throughout the nation," said Stanford's Philip Pizzo in a letter posted on the school Web site on October 3.

Cornell acting President Hunter Rawlings, in his "state of the university" address last week, spoke about the challenge to science represented by "intelligent design" which holds that the theory of evolution accepted by the vast majority of scientists is fatally flawed. Rawlings said the dispute was widening political, social, religious and philosophical rifts in U.S. society. "When ideological division replaces informed exchange, dogma is the result and education suffers," he said.

Adherents of intelligent design argue that certain forms in nature are too complex to have evolved through natural selection and must have been created by a "designer," who could but does not have to be identified as God.

In the past five years, the scientific community has often seemed at odds with the Bush administration over issues as diverse as global warming, stem cell research and environmental protection. Prominent scientists have also charged the administration with politicizing science by seeking to shape data to its own needs while ignoring other research. Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians have built a powerful position within the Republican Party and no Republican, including Bush, can afford to ignore their views. This was dramatically illustrated in the case of Terri Schiavo earlier this year, in which Republicans in Congress passed a law to keep a woman in a persistent vegetative state alive against her husband's wishes, and Bush himself spoke out in favor of "the culture of life."

The issue of whether intelligent design should be taught, or at least mentioned, in high school biology classes is being played out in a Pennsylvania court room and in numerous school districts across the country. The school board of Dover, Pennsylvania, is being sued by parents backed by the American Civil Liberties Union after it ordered schools to read students a short statement in biology classes informing them that the theory of evolution is not established fact and that gaps exist in it. The statement mentioned intelligent design as an alternative theory and recommended students to read a book that explained the theory further.

Brown University biologist Kenneth Miller believes the rhetoric of the anti-evolution movement has had the effect of driving a wedge between a large proportion of the population who follow fundamentalist Christianity and science.

"It is alienating young people from science. It basically tells them that the scientific community is not to be trusted and you would have to abandon your principles of faith to become a scientist, which is not at all true," he said.

On the other side, conservative scholar Michael Novak of the American Enterprise Institute, believes the only way to heal the rift between science and religion is to allow the teaching of intelligent design.

"To have antagonism between science and religion is crazy," he said at a forum on the issue last week.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christianity; creationism; crevolist; evolution; globalwarming; intelligentdesign; religion; science; scienceeducation; scienceisforsuckers; stemcell
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To: The_Reader_David

You said that so much more better and more gracefuly than I could have...


121 posted on 10/28/2005 8:05:20 PM PDT by gondramB
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To: Crackingham

The line that is most often used in NYC public schools and universities is: "Old Jewish men training Indian and Chinese immigrants how to win the next generation of Nobel prizes..."

So, no, the U.S. isn't becoming hostile to science, but third and fourth generation Americans are steering clear of it.


122 posted on 10/28/2005 8:10:23 PM PDT by durasell
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To: Crackingham

"To have antagonism between science and religion is crazy...

Taken in context, this is called hypocrisy.

123 posted on 10/28/2005 8:11:24 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: PetroniusMaximus

You want to teach me there's no God!

Teach me about your God.

124 posted on 10/28/2005 8:30:54 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: ml1954

***Teach me about your God.***

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=John+1&section=0&version=esv&language=en


125 posted on 10/28/2005 8:34:15 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Why should I believe this?
126 posted on 10/28/2005 8:38:51 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: ml1954

***Why should I believe this?***

Did you finish reading it?


127 posted on 10/28/2005 8:41:07 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Yes. And I've read it before.


128 posted on 10/28/2005 8:42:06 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: gondramB
I agree and that is not really what I'm getting at. My point is simply some of the stuff they pass off as fact is really no more factual, provable or "scientific" than ID. As for evolution it is scientifically the best explanation but certainly not an absolute fact or proved. Now I know some will dispute that but I challenge them to prove it. We are in a heap of post modern trouble in part because we have lost the ability to ask or discuss the essential questions of life in any meaningful public forum. Its actually quite pathetic IMO.
129 posted on 10/28/2005 8:49:09 PM PDT by Archon of the East ("universal executive power of the law of nature")
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To: ml1954

***Yes.***

So you read the whole Gospel in 15 min?


130 posted on 10/28/2005 8:55:50 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

It took just a few minutes to read the link you posted.


131 posted on 10/28/2005 9:03:14 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Crackingham
In the past five years, the scientific community has often seemed at odds with the Bush administration over issues as diverse as global warming, stem cell research and environmental protection... This was dramatically illustrated in the case of Terri Schiavo earlier this year

This article (predictably) defines leftism as 'science.' Global warming & many other "environmental" concerns are actually backdoor socialism -- while the stem cell & Schiavo matters concerned ethics, not science at all.

132 posted on 10/28/2005 9:05:40 PM PDT by Sloth (You being wrong & me being closed-minded are not the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive.)
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To: ml1954

***It took just a few minutes to read the link you posted.***

Actually, I meant the whole Gospel. Sorry for not being clear.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&version=47

(Use the next chapter button.)


133 posted on 10/28/2005 9:13:51 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Crackingham
How totally insecure evolutionists are portrayed in this article.

I graduated first in my college class with a perfect 4.0 GPA and believe 100% in Creationism and think evoltution is stupid.

The idea that being pro-creationist means one is none-scientific is absurd. The most brilliant people I know are creationists.

134 posted on 10/28/2005 9:18:43 PM PDT by Jorge (Q)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

I have already read the entire gospel. I appreciate your honest effort. And I respect what you believe.


135 posted on 10/28/2005 9:19:46 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: RogueIsland
ID is as much a theory as pyramid power and zero point energy machines, except it is even less subject to falsification. Basically, it's thus far an intellectually bankrupt, scientifically worthless, often outright mendacious collection of nonsense being used by the deceitful to gull the ignorant.

ROFL! This is a parody to make evolutionist look like foolish bags of wind, right?

136 posted on 10/28/2005 9:22:12 PM PDT by Jorge (Q)
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To: Crackingham

Junk science, junk scientists and the advancement of such clap-trap needs to go.


137 posted on 10/28/2005 9:24:23 PM PDT by Whitewasher (That's what I really believe.)
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To: ml1954

*** I appreciate your honest effort. And I respect what you believe.***

No problem friend.

If you have not read them in a while, perhaps you might find time to do so again. You may be suprised what you come across in them. I constantly am.


138 posted on 10/28/2005 9:33:39 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Crackingham
Interesting.
Amongst the reasons that Reuters highlights to demonstrate America's (or at least those unenlightened Republicans) antipathy towards science:

* They don't buy into the Global Warming crisis;
* They raise questions about the ethics of harvesting stem cells from aborted babies.
* They're against 'environmental protection'(?) ... I presume this has something to do with opening up ANWAR.
* They raised questions about the ethics of denying food and water to a living human being.

Sure -- count me as hostile to 'science' (so-called) then ...

139 posted on 10/28/2005 9:38:23 PM PDT by El Cid
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To: gondramB
1. It is not deterministic because that would not account for chaos effects.

You misunderstand chaos. Chaos does not eliminate determinism, it amplifies very small effects. Moreover, quantum systems seem to be far less likely to show chaos than classical systems.

My statement is simply that science cannot exclude the existence of of a higher power guiding things. You seem to think I said I can prove there is a higher power and that is not at all what I said

If a higher power is guiding things, it must invovle a suspension of or alteration in physical laws.

A larger point is that by making statements that are false that the universe is deterministic and that God is excluded then you are, rather ironically, making the same mistake of giving up that ID people are prone to make and also playing into their hands strategically - just like them you seek to cast this as science versus religion when there is no conflict for reasonable, logical men.

There is nothing false about the statement that the universe, as current physics understands it, is deterministic. Ignorance on your part does not constitute a falsehood on my part. I'm sorry you don't like the physics, but it isn't my problem to adjust science to accomodate whatever compromise you seem to deem necessary between science and religion.

140 posted on 10/29/2005 7:42:22 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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