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Let's keep this discussion on a high level, please. Thank you.

1 posted on 10/26/2005 9:20:59 AM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Howlin; onyx; Clemenza; Petronski; GummyIII; SevenofNine; martin_fierro; EggsAckley; Xenalyte; ...

Miscellaneous ping


2 posted on 10/26/2005 9:22:39 AM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar

bump.


3 posted on 10/26/2005 9:24:34 AM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: EveningStar
Here--40 years after the great civil rights victories and 50 years after Rosa Parks's great refusal--was a poverty that oppression could no longer entirely explain.

Rosa Park's generation would have taken responsibility for themselves, their family and their neighbors.

4 posted on 10/26/2005 9:27:21 AM PDT by kipita (Conservatives: Freedom and Responsibility………Liberals: Freedom from Responsibility)
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To: EveningStar
Let's keep this discussion on a high level, please.

Wanna bet?

5 posted on 10/26/2005 9:27:39 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: EveningStar

Here's the problem with this analysis. White people, with all their supposed advantages, were stuck in the flood, too.
The flood had nothing to do with race. There is no shame in being a victim of a flood.


6 posted on 10/26/2005 9:29:17 AM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: EveningStar

Good article.


7 posted on 10/26/2005 9:32:06 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: EveningStar

Interesting article, but I don't think that black people's feeling of inferiority and helplessness was a product of slavery. I grew up in the 1950's and my black friends - even though Jim Crow laws still existed - certainly did not feel inferior, and those who lived in places where there was no institutionalized racism felt that they were going to go places and do things.

The "Great Society" essentially put an end to this. Blacks could no longer be individuals, some of whom would do well and some of whom would not, but had to be a group, defined by the government as helpless, needy and an object of constant care and concern. It may have been well meant, but it was poison nonetheless.

Being regarded as nothing but one more member of a dysfunctional, needy client group is enough to undermine anyone's resolve. The remarkable thing is that some individual blacks have done as well as they have.


9 posted on 10/26/2005 9:32:43 AM PDT by livius
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To: EveningStar
BY the incessant drawing of attention TO RACE, we remain racists. We don't see others as simply human beings. When we stop the racist politics and see people as people, then racism won't be an issue.
13 posted on 10/26/2005 9:37:15 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: EveningStar

Steele has taken a big step.


14 posted on 10/26/2005 9:37:39 AM PDT by Reaganghost (Democrats are living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.)
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To: EveningStar; onyx; cyborg; Petronski

the problems we are having as a national people shall continue to prove intractible so long as:

1. for various reasons, people are not allowed to (carefully, specifically) note that there are indeed empirically verifiable problems, and...

2. the discussion is dominated by racism (old fashioned, plus reverse-racism, plus "the soft bigotry of low expectations"), tired old excuses for extortion, doggerel-spouting mo-tards, race-baiting politics, and PC social theory.

These problems are matters of culture, not genetics.
These problems are matters of culture, not material wealth or poverty.
These problems are a matter of culture, not history.


15 posted on 10/26/2005 9:40:11 AM PDT by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: EveningStar
Let's keep this discussion on a high level, please.

You're not from around here, are you.

< |;)~

16 posted on 10/26/2005 9:40:21 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: EveningStar

Very good article--thanks for posting it.

To summarize Shelby Steele's thoughts--treating people first and foremost as INDIVIDUALS rather than members of ethnic, racial, national group is the key to the individual and social well being. We cannot choose our ethnicity, race, or national origin, but we all can choose responsibility for our lives and we all can choose not blame the rest of the world if we fail.


19 posted on 10/26/2005 9:40:34 AM PDT by sergey1973 (Russian American Political Blogger, Arm Chair Strategist)
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To: EveningStar
The politics of shame taken to an even higher level:

"We Have to Exterminate White People" -Dr. Kamau Kambon of Howard University

32 posted on 10/26/2005 9:47:39 AM PDT by TaxRelief ("Conservatives are cracking down!" -- Rush Limbaugh, October 13, 2005)
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To: EveningStar
Yep, one commentator we know said it took the people of Louisiana three days to turn their dome into a ghetto.

I think in all honesty they suffer the dependence they have achieved by relying on government and 40 plus years of believing the Democrat party.

I really wish them well, but if all they have is their hate of other races as an excuse and the Democrat party as their mentors, they are doomed.

They need to change, not the whole rest of the productive world and that is the bottom line whether you want to hear it or not.

Those that get away from the dependency culture thrive like anyone else in America, so this really isn't a race issue, it is a culture issue IMO.

They are the result of their own lack of effort.

33 posted on 10/26/2005 9:47:56 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: All

Another great quote by Steele from the article:

"President Johnson's famous Howard University speech, which launched the Great Society in 1965, outlined this balance of power by explicitly spelling out white responsibility without a single reference to black responsibility. In the 40 years since that speech no American president has dared correct this oversight."

The harm that the Great Society has wielded on people in general and blacks in particular cannot be understated.


34 posted on 10/26/2005 9:48:36 AM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar; All
It was not just blacks that did things to merit shame...

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

36 posted on 10/26/2005 9:49:56 AM PDT by WilliamWallace1999
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To: EveningStar

<< Let's keep this discussion on a high level, please. >>

The cost of the positive disencentive to taking responsiblity for oneself, also known as the "Great Society," is up around Ten Trillion Dollars.

That high enough for you?

And God alone knows how many more Billions of creative and innovative and productive and industrious Americans' confiscated Dollars in white and black hands have been cynically blown on turning Louisianna's black and white indolent into effectively-hopeless and helpless state and city dependants.

On buying their votes.


37 posted on 10/26/2005 9:50:00 AM PDT by Brian Allen (Patriotic [Immigrant] AMERICAN-American by choice - Christian and Aviator by Grace)
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To: EveningStar

How's this for a high level...

I was recently charged with being a racist by my coworker because my coworker(who happens to be black) overheard my desktop radio at very low volume levels I might add)and got offended becuase I happened to be listening to Sean Hannity on WABC AM radio. Sean was talking about the "Millions More" march and had on various black leaders as guests. My coworker, made the charge with my boss, went to HR even blew up and made a scene in the office at me in front of all of my coworkers, gossiped about it to the rest of the office and even harrassed me in our breakroom. All becuase she blamed her offense at me as if I control her actions and emotions.

Dispite the treachery I was recieving, I did the right thing, kept my mouth shut, documented the entire transgression and didn't speak a word of it to anyone except my boss.

After all was said and done, she wasn't reprimanded either verbally or written becuase she was black and had the race card in her pocket. Had the roles been reversed, as a white male, you betcha I would have been fired.

The only satisfaction I recieved was knowing that her own actions and words, despite how illogical and irrational, are perpetuating the culture of 'low expectations' so prevalent in the black community. The saddest part is that she is completely oblivious to the fact that her own actions were racist and bigoted, that she is the only one accountable for her own actions and words (not me), and that it is her own personal issue and perogative over what offends her (not mine).

Liberals indeed have a some sort of mental disorder, race and skin color aside.



38 posted on 10/26/2005 9:50:51 AM PDT by Frenetic
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To: EveningStar
This is understandable given the unforgiving pas de deux of mutual witness between blacks and whites in which each race prepares a face for the other and seizes on the other's weaknesses with ravenous delight.

This line he wrote is pushing it. Really a bit of crap.

It's in no way shape or form my fault regarding what happened to anyone in New Orleans. Whether they be black or white. It was a huge natural disaster. I have absolutely no guilt about it nor have I given much thought to the complexion of the people hurt. Only that they were Americans and needed some help. And I helped.

With that said it's indeed an absurd, asinine, insane and stupid idea to build a city in a large hole surrounded by water. So why do it again?

If the subject is poor black folk in New Orleans and the conversation is about their plight in life if finger pointing is demanded I can only say that the "work ethic" I see in many people was lacking. Lacking not because these people are black but because they were stuck in a corner. The old "don't give a man a fish teach him how to fish" adage applies. But instead the politicians in Louisiana didn't construct a system that promoted business growth in poor communities they just pretty much sat there until election time.

We have very successful people of all colors and we have people without much of all colors. Generally, all those folks have the opportunity to succeed in this country if they want to. They just have to have the desire. I'm not stopping them from doing what they want to. Are you?

If we need to do something that helps poor folks let's give them a way to make their own money. Let's pass the Fair Tax Plan and let business explode. As it is now the tax system is racist from what I can see.

44 posted on 10/26/2005 9:56:26 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (Get the incumbents out of politics!)
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To: EveningStar
Because Shelby Steele went to the same college as my son did (but years earlier) I took note of him after reading The Content of Our Character when it first came out in '92. He became a fellow at the Hoover Institute and shares the platform with the likes of Thomas Sowell (the greatest living conservative thinker, IMHO).

Steele's bio from the Hoover page:

Shelby Steele is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution who specializes in the study of race relations, multiculturalism, and affirmative action. He was appointed a Hoover fellow in 1994.

Steele's most recent book is A Dream Deferred: The Second Betrayal of Black Freedom in America. In A Dream Deferred, Steele argues that too much of what has been done since the Great Society in the name of black rights has far more to do with the moral redemption or self-satisfaction of whites than with any real improvement in the lives of blacks.

Steele received the National Book Critic's Circle Award in 1990 in the general nonfiction category for his book The Content of Our Character: A New Vision of Race in America. He also has written extensively for major publications including the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. He also is a contributing editor at Harper's magazine.

He also is a member of the National Association of Scholars, the national board of the American Academy for Liberal Education, the University Accreditation Association, and the national board at the Center for the New American Community at the Manhattan Institute.

He has written widely on race in American society and the consequences of contemporary social programs on race relations. He has also spoken before hundreds of groups and appeared on national current affairs news programs including Nightline and 60 Minutes.

In 1991, his work on the documentary Seven Days in Bensonhurst was recognized with an Emmy Award, the Writer's Guild Award for television documentary writing, and the San Francisco Film Festival Award for television documentary writing. In 2004, Steele was awarded the National Humanities Medal.

Steele holds a Ph.D. in English from the University of Utah, an M.A. in sociology from Southern Illinois University, and a B.A. in political science from Coe College, Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

I have also read A Dream Deferred which is very profound.
57 posted on 10/26/2005 10:06:28 AM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free....)
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