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Concealed-carry law threatens order(pants wetting retarded college student hoplophobe barf alert)
http://badgerherald.com ^ | 10 19 05 | Adam Lichtenheld

Posted on 10/19/2005 11:37:35 AM PDT by freepatriot32

Last week, two state legislators finally introduced the controversial Personal Protection Act, a proposal that would allow citizens to bear a gun, knife or — as ridiculous as it sounds — a billy club in public. The bill’s drafters include every gun-lover’s hero, Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire, a man with more rifles and shotguns on his office walls than the Madison police, and Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, the Assembly’s alleged hunting expert.

Undercutting progressive gun-control initiatives, state politicians around the country have bowed to the NRA-rabid right and their backward “more guns, less crime” rhetoric in their absurd belief that hidden handguns deter crime, that everyone would be afraid to harm anyone else out of fear that a weapon is shoved down every pocket. This has spawned the passage of laws in almost every state to allow citizens to carry concealed firearms in public. Wisconsin, as one of four remaining states that has thus far rejected political conformity, is now threatening to succumb to the pressures of the gun lobby.

While alarmists like to predict a chaotic scene reminiscent of the Wild West, there are many risks associated with allowing citizens to sport hidden handguns whose logic is more concrete than fantastic predictions of “Matrix”-style shootouts on Bascom Hill.

In support of their legislation, Messrs. Zien and Gunderson have continually quoted a flawed study by gun-loving economist John Lott, whose linking of concealed-carry laws to lower crime rates has been frequently debunked by a multitude of esteemed scholars and pro-gun criminologists. Just as there is minimal proof that conceal and carry brings out the Clint Eastwood in every citizen, there is little evidence that the laws effectively deter would-be assailants and thieves. Rapid decreases in crime rates across the nation can be more directly associated with strict gun access laws and post-Sept. 11 security initiatives than weak provisions that allow individuals to bring their pistol to the supermarket.

You don’t need to be a staunch anti-gun advocate to see why letting people carry guns in banks, churches, university dormitories, and the state Capitol is a fundamentally bad idea. While granting citizens the means to protect themselves, it also gives criminals the means to commit crimes. Concealed-carry extends more rights to crooks and felons, guaranteeing that some weapons will fall into the wrong hands, making law-enforcement a virtual nightmare. Perhaps this is why the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association strongly opposes the Zien-Gunderson bill.

Police, more than anybody, would know how the presence of a handgun endangers all parties, including the gun’s owner — for 12 percent of law enforcement officers killed by firearms are shot to death with their own service weapon. Guns quickly escalate a situation, and bringing one into the fold — imagine a drunken brawl or back alley mugging — only stands to make things much, much worse. You go from losing your wallet to losing your life; you go from enduring a black eye or a bloody nose to suffering from a gunshot wound.

Proponents of the legislation especially love to claim that conceal and carry is necessary for self-defense. Yet the odds that one would use a gun on an assailant or thief are quite minimal — of the over 30,000 gun deaths in 2002, only 163 were deemed “justifiable homicide,” and it’s well known that a gun is 43 times more likely to be used in killing its owner or a relative than an intruder. The legislation, which is opposed by a majority of Wisconsin citizens and state gun owners, is supposedly intended to protect the disabled and the elderly. Yet these are the very people who would have the most difficult time obtaining the necessary gun permit, and the citizens who would be most incapable of effectively operating a firearm at all.

In America, guns are presented as the solution to everything. Too many school shootings? Give teachers firearms. Airplane hijackings becoming a problem? Arm the pilots. Too many criminals running loose? Let citizens wield their semi-automatics and use the law at their own discretion. In a nation where gun violence remains a virtual epidemic, the very poison itself is also assumed to be the anecdote. If more guns lead to less crime, then why does the United States, with the developing world’s most lax gun laws, suffer from 93 gun deaths every day, four to five times more than any other industrialized nation? If owning a weapon makes people safer, then why does a gun in the home triple the risk of homicide? If gun accessibility is not a problem, then why do firearm fatalities remain as the second leading killer of this nation’s youth?

Other states have bowed to our fear-driven culture and the junk science it produces, undermining rapid advancements in curtailing crime and dealing a blow to effective gun control. I would hate to see Wisconsin do the same.

Adam Lichtenheld (lichtenheld@wisc.edu) is a sophomore majoring in political science and African studies.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: academialist; alert; bang; banglist; barf; bigfag; carry; college; concealed; donutwatch; hoplophobe; law; madison; madistan; moscowonmendota; needsfreshdepends; order; pants; student; students; threatens; weenie; wetting; wi
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To: wolfpat
His lading source is probably Michael Belisiles, author of Arming America. Oops!! Arming America was proved to be a total fraud and Belisiles was forced to resign from his job as a tenured prefessor at Emory University.
61 posted on 10/19/2005 1:35:46 PM PDT by libstripper
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To: 1L

Evidence? Since when does a liberal gun-hater need evidence? It's all about "feeling". The guy "feels" guns are wrong so they're wrong. It's a simple world really. For liberals.


62 posted on 10/19/2005 1:42:21 PM PDT by kjo
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To: freepatriot32

This is a case study in simply making it up. About every number or figure in his report is wrong, exagerated, or simply made up!


63 posted on 10/19/2005 1:42:41 PM PDT by Jim Verdolini (We had it all, but the RINOs stalked the land and everything they touched was as dung and ashes!)
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To: freepatriot32

When I went to LI's conservative publication school years back, there was a Badger Herald rep there. How can they now publish this crap?

Somebody needs to get Morton Blackwell rappin' heads up there in Badgerland. I hope this is just a guest columnist instead of a regular, because if he's a regular the whole staff should be embarrassed. Regularly. By GOA members.


64 posted on 10/19/2005 2:05:13 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile (The GOP's failure in the Senate is no excuse for betraying the conservative base that gave it to `em)
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To: freepatriot32
Another punk Marxist wannabe kissing UW Madison professors butt... He probably figures on going to grad school there and with his pack of lies masquerading as rational reporting has garnered for himself a nice spot by the liberal fire groveling at the feet of his left wing masters...

Woof Woof.. lap dog boy of the left...

65 posted on 10/19/2005 2:52:37 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: freepatriot32
From the article: "Police, more than anybody, would know how the presence of a handgun endangers all parties, including the gun’s owner — for 12 percent of law enforcement officers killed by firearms are shot to death with their own service weapon."

Absolutely. That is why police departments around the nation have been campaigning so heavily to disarm themselves. NOT!

I believe this statistic reflects the fact that policemen have a greater than average suicide rate. Their death rate on the job is much lower than that of firefighters, I believe, and less than farmers who regularly get chewed up by their machinery.

Also, the author appears to have unwittingly included two different versions of the same study. Originally, it was claimed that a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill the owner than a bad guy. Later, when challenged, the author of the study (Kellerman?) reduced the number to 3. This was because he was unable to supply the data.

The misused statistic also conceals the fact that the majority of successful defensive uses of a gun end with no shots being fired. It is estimated that perhaps two million such successful defensive uses occur per year.

66 posted on 10/19/2005 2:59:38 PM PDT by William Tell (Put the RKBA on the California Constitution - Volunteer through rkba.members.sonic.net)
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To: freepatriot32

"it also gives criminals the means to commit crimes. "


they already have the guns. that's why they're criminals.

yet another reason i'm gonna stay out of the people's repulic of madistan.


67 posted on 10/19/2005 3:36:28 PM PDT by DTwistedSisterS
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To: freepatriot32

This person really believes that criminals are law abiding folks who will not carry guns if carrying is outlawed?????


68 posted on 10/19/2005 3:44:17 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: 1L

The Communists used to introduce their more blatant lies in Pravda or the local Daily Worker with the phrase "As is well know..." or something similar.


69 posted on 10/19/2005 3:46:37 PM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: freepatriot32


Alright Marge, close your eyes, I've got a surprise for you.....
70 posted on 10/19/2005 3:46:46 PM PDT by proud_yank (Socialism is economic oppression)
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To: freepatriot32

TEXAS
2001 Conviction Rates of Concealed Handgun License Holders


OFFENSE
Conviction Count of Licensed Individuals*


Conviction Count of Non-Licensed Individuals**


Percentage of Total Convictions Committed by Licensed Individuals
MURDER (Title 5, Chapter 19)
1


157


0.63%
KIDNAPPING (Title 5, Chapter 20)
0


124


0.00%
SEXUAL ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 21)
9


1,359


0.66%
ROBBERY (Title 7, Chapter 29)
0


1,360


0.00%
AGGRAVATED ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 22)
17


2,259


0.75%
ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 22)
54


17,309


0.31%
TERRORISTIC THREAT (Title 5, Chapter 22)
5


1,229


0.41%
BURGLARY (Title 7, Chapter 30)
1


5,675


0.02%
INDECENCY WITH A CHILD (Title 5, Chapter 22)
19


929


2.00%
INDECENT EXPOSURE (Title 5, Chapter 22)
5


543


0.91%
FAIL OR REFUSE TO DISPLAY CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE (Subchapter H)
0


0


0.00%
UNLAWFULLY CARRYING HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER (Title 10, Chapter 46)
25


0


100.00%
UNLAWFULLY CARRYING WEAPON (Title 10, Chapter 46)
22


2,905


0.75%
POSSESSION OF COMPONENTS OF EXPLOSIVES (Title 10, Chapter 46)
0


4


0.00%
UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM BY FELON
(WEAPONS FREE ZONE) (Title 10, Chapter 46)
0


1


0.00%
DEADLY CONDUCT DISCHARGE FIREARM
(Title 10, Chapter 46)
1


102


0.97%
HOAX BOMBS (Title 10, Chapter 46)
0


2


0.00%
MAKE FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO CHILD DEATH/SERIOUS BODILY INJURY (Title 10, Chapter 46)
0


5


0.00%
HARASSMENT (Title 5, Chapter 22)
21


1,013


2.03%
COERCE SOLICIT INDUCE GANG MEMBERSHIP
(Title 5, Chapter 22)
0


94


0.00%

TOTAL CONVICTED OFFENSES

180


35,070


0.51064%


71 posted on 10/19/2005 3:50:12 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: joesnuffy

He probably figures on going to grad school there and with his pack of lies...




And even worse he will replicate himself as a "professor" -providing more propaganda fodder for the next generation of mushheads. Faculty hiring committees are notorious for making sure that there is absolutely no deviance from the party line...the Marxist/Socialist party line by hiring only those who will tow the line.


72 posted on 10/19/2005 4:07:58 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: freepatriot32

What he lacks in logic he makes up for in blind zeal.


73 posted on 10/19/2005 4:09:36 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: freepatriot32
He's kinda cute. It's too bad he's an idiot.
74 posted on 10/19/2005 4:22:04 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: Rob_DSM
Re: "That might be true sometimes, but most of the time it would seem that brandishing a gun will take the situation from bloody nose to nothing happened at all."

I find that when I carry a gun I tend to avoid situations, mainly because while carrying I tend to have a heightened sense of situations to avoid. The anonymity of my car tends to nurture aggression more than carrying a sidearm. When I'm not driving my car, I am at those times either a pedestrian or a bicyclist. But that doesn't keeping the down the automotive urge to run over idiot pedestrians and bicyclists who desperately need to experience the exhilaration of natural selective encounters.

75 posted on 10/19/2005 4:37:01 PM PDT by LibTeeth
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To: freepatriot32

Adam. I dare you to fill your wallet with money. Wear some nice lookin' expensive clothing.

Get thee hence to Milwaukee. Drive around until you find some of the .... seedier .... areas.

Get out of your car. Throw your keys into the lake and start walkin' around. Alone. At night.

I double dare you, you weenie.


76 posted on 10/19/2005 6:02:28 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (FR1....Varoooooom, Varooooooom!!!)
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To: freepatriot32

This puppy is a eunuch.


77 posted on 10/19/2005 6:03:31 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: SW6906

The kid is recieving a brain washing courtesy of our university system. He makes claims with out using and stats to back his stuff up. Im sure he will be given an A+++++ by his professors if he hands this in as a paper or homework assignment. He just needs to be laughed at.

Political Science and African Studies?? Would you like fries with that? Would you like cheese on that burger?


78 posted on 10/19/2005 6:17:16 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: freepatriot32

Adam, if you ever get your butt stomped by two or three men as husky as you are, you will appreciate the fact that with a small handgun you could have prevented your bleeding and unconsciousness in that back alley by just exposing the weapon in the holster.


79 posted on 10/19/2005 6:17:49 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: freepatriot32
John Lott, whose linking of concealed-carry laws to lower crime rates has been frequently debunked by a multitude of esteemed scholars and pro-gun criminologists.

Please Mr. Lick-N-hold,Name one!!!

80 posted on 10/19/2005 6:21:15 PM PDT by HP8753 (My cat is an NTSB Standard,The Naval Observatory calls me for time corrections.)
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