Posted on 10/10/2005 3:25:43 PM PDT by 45Auto
Some cartridges just seem to live forever. Thankfully the 45-70 Government is one of them. It began life in the days of black powder and has evolved over time into the cartridge we know today. After owning and shooting several guns chambered for it it’s easy for me to see why. It’s accurate, easy to reload for, and hits like a freight train. From the muzzle to 150-200 yard range this old cartridge is hard to beat.
To really see the true performance of this round you do need to hand load for it though. Factory ammunition lacks the true performance the 45-70 is capable of producing. It seems almost any load will shoot accurately in a rifle or handgun. If you are willing to endure a little punishment, the old 45-70 Govt. will show you the love. Recoil can be heavy but it’s well worth it. Since the 45-70 is a low pressure round the strait walled cases will last for a very long time. The large rim makes it a natural for single shot rifles and handguns.
A heavy roll crimp is a must to keep bullets in place under the heavy recoil of a repeating firearm. I recommend separating bullet seating and crimping into two steps to insure the crimp is solid. Be sure to follow the loading data recommended for the firearm you are using. Most manuals have several levels for the 45-70. Light loads for the old or antique guns, a little heavier level for modern guns such as the Marlin 1895 lever actions, and heavy loads for guns like the Ruger No. 1’s and the Browning 1885. Care should be taken to insure the proper data is being used for your gun.
The results of improperly hand loading the 45-70 can deadly. Be careful! The best powders I’ve found so far are Reloader 7 and IMR 3031. As far as bullets, I’ve tried from 300-grain up to a hard-cast 510-grain flat nose. Firing the 510-grain bullets from a 14” Thompson/Center Contender is an experience not soon for gotten. The 300-grain hollow points are common among deer hunters and offer higher velocities than heaver bullets. I’ve used them in the past with good luck in T/C Contenders. They are accurate and hit hard.
For deer the 300-grainers are probably the best choice. I used Sierra’s 300-grain hollow point with IMR 3031, in both the 16” and Super 14” Contender barrels I’ve owned. Accuracy from a scoped T/C Contender is phenomenal. Last fall I started using a 350-grain Hornady flat-point in my Marlin 1895 “Guide Gun” with Reloader 7 and now prefer it to the lighter bullet. This load kicks like a mad mule but hits just as hard. I truly believe it will take any game in Texas, or the world for that matter with authority, excluding truly dangerous game. At the time I’m writing this I’ve not tried the 400-grain or heaver bullets in my rifle but plan to try them soon and will update this article once I have a good load. A hunter looking for this type of cartridge but who prefers to shoot factory ammunition, the 450 Marlin is the one. It was developed as a joint effort between Marlin and Hornady to duplicate the performance of heavy loads in the 45-70.
Great post, shot a trapdoor in years gone by, great rifle.
Haven't tried the one handed versions, yet.
3000 lbs would be a large cheesemoose.
It would, don't you think, even considering.
Very cool, Mr. Osage. You're getting out of my range of (limited) knowledge here, but those are cool rifles. I've heard of them, but not seen a real one.
I like old guns, though.
Thanks for the ping. I think my poor Sharps cavalry carbine wouldn't have done the trick that day. I would have felt safe with it within fifty to a hundred feet, maybe with practice... Nice and pristine, matched parts, wouldn't shoot it, just keep it.
Wow, what a shot!
Now I gotta think about all this a bit. Hmmm, got a nice Enfield to think about, too.
8mm
ADOBE WALLS, TEXAS. Adobe Walls was the name given several trading posts and later a ranching community located seventeen miles northeast of Stinnett and just north of the Canadian River in what is now northeastern Hutchinson County. The first trading post in the area seems to have been established in early 1843 by representatives of the trading firm of Bent, St. Vrain and Company, which hoped to trade with the Comanches and Kiowas. These Indians avoided Bent's Fort, the company's main headquarters on the upper Arkansas River near La Junta, Colorado, because enemies, the Cheyennes and Arapahoes, lived in the area. The new satellite post was situated on a stream that became known as Bent's (now Bent) Creek. Company traders worked originally from tepees and later from log structures. Probably no real fort was built on the site before 1846. Sometime after September 1845 William Bent and Ceran St. Vrain, chief partners in the firm, arrived with Mexican adobe makers to replace the log establishment with Fort Adobe, a structure eighty feet square, with nine-foot walls and only one entrance.
Occupation of Fort Adobe was sporadic, and by 1848 Indian hostility had resulted in its closure. That fall a momentary peace was effected, and Bent sought to reopen the post by sending Christopher (Kit) Carson,qv Lucien Maxwell, and five other employees to the Canadian. Resistance from the Jicarilla Apaches, however, forced Carson's group to cache the trade goods and buffalo robes they had acquired and return to Bent's Fort. Soon after, several Comanches persuaded Bent to make another try at resuming trade at Fort Adobe. A thirteen-man party, led by R. W. (Dick) Wootton, encountered restive Comanches at the fort and finally conducted trade through a window cut in the wall. In the spring of 1849, in a last concerted effort to revive the post, Bent accompanied several ox-drawn wagons to the Canadian. After part of his stock was killed by Indians, he blew up the fort's interior with gunpowder and abandoned the Panhandleqv trade to the Comancheros.qv
The adobe ruins thus became a familiar landmark to both Indians and Comancheros and to any white man who dared to venture into the heart of Comanchería. In November 1864 Carson, now a colonel of volunteers, used the walls of Fort Adobe to rest his 300 men and their horses after sacking a Kiowa village during a campaign against the tribes of the southern Plains. The group withstood several Indian attacks at the fort before withdrawing (see ADOBE WALLS, FIRST BATTLE OF).
In March 1874 merchants from Dodge City, Kansas, following the buffaloqv hunters south into the Texas Panhandle, established a large complex, called the Myers and Leonard Store, about a mile north of the Fort Adobe ruins. This business, which included a corral and restaurant, was joined in April 1874 by a second store operated by Charles Rathqv and Company. Shortly afterward James N. Hanrahan and Rath opened a saloon, and Tom O'Keefe started a blacksmith shop. By the end of spring, 200 to 300 buffalo hunters roamed the area, and trade at Adobe Walls boomed. After an Indian uprising called the second battle of Adobe Wallsqv (June 1874) both merchants and hunters abandoned the site.
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/AA/hra10.html
oooooh, gunporn
I'm thinkin' the same thing.
.45 BTTT
Wouldn't a slightly shorter case produce the same result?
Plinking. Heh.
Like a 325-grain bullet goes "plink"!
They used thinner brass, and balloon-headed cases.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/gibbs_summit.htm
Not that I especially agree with ol' Chuck on a few viewpoints, but...
When I lived in Western Kansas, my shooting buddy was around 5'7" and weighed maybe 150. I am 6"3" and over 300. He had just bought a new model 94 in 30-30 and I had a new Sharps (made by Pedersoli) .54 caliber black powder rifle.
Now every time I fired that 30-30, it was a commemorative with a curved brass buttplate, it really hurt. When I fired the Sharps with 70 grains of pyrodex, it was just a gentle push.
Now he said the 30-30 didn't hurt him at all but the Sharps about knocked him down. That 45-70 really did hurt but I don't think it was the recoil itself as much as the stock design.
I literally can't tell the difference in recoil between a 10mm Delta elite and a 9mm. Other people tell me the 10mm is vicious. I can shoot a .44 magnum, either a Ruger Blackhawk or S&W model 29 for a pretty good while without it bothering me, but if I shoot a TC contender in the same caliber it feels like someone hit my palm with a rubber hammer.
The 45-70 has a standard size brass case with a standard cartridge OAL (overall length). It was originally a blackpowder load, thus the powder was more bulky and filled the case. Modern smokeless powders e.g. H4198 are more compact.
You'll note that the shorter case approach is just what the WSSM short magnum rifle brass is designed to do. Keep all the powder down by the primer with a shorter, larger diameter brass case.
The rear miliary type sight was missing the spring... but it still hit repeatedly in a the center of a pie plate at 100 yds with factory Ammo.
I liked the .45-70 so much I later built myself one out of an 1886 .33 Winchester sporting rifle that had been rebarreled with a mauser barrel, when I found an original, in the white, 1886 Winchester .45-70 barrel stuck in the corner of Simms Gun Department where I worked in the early '70s. I tossed the sporterized stock and carved one as close to original as I could make it. I finished the barrel with original Winchester formula blueing. I used the original cyanide formula case-hardening method to get the colors on the receiver just right. The results look pretty much like this:
I wish I still had it... and the Remington Keene.
I traded the Remington Keene away for a mint condition (still had the cleaning rods rolled in brown paper in the stock) Winchester 1873 military rifle with bayonette.
My home-brewed '86? I took it with me when I had a table at the first Cal Expo Gun Show in '74. A gun dealer from Carson City kept coming around and looking at it... he'd pick it up, turn it over and over... and then set it back down. Late in the afternoon, he came back with a genuine Winchester 1895 .30-40 Krag Military Carbine under his arm and handed it to me. It was pristine (about 95% original finish) and had the flaming "piss" pot military inspector's mark... serial number range put it in the first 1000 that were purchased for the US Military in the Phillipines... still had the saddle ring and top wood. I did not have one in my collection of Winchesters and very much wanted this fine example. The one he offered me was in much better shape than this one.
He said "Are you interested in a trade for your .45-70?"
I said, "I might be, but I suspect we should be talking about some money to boot."
"How does $200 sound?" said he, and I said "OK!">[? As I was reaching for my wallet to get out my mad money, he put the '95 carbine down on the table, picked up my '86 and dropped two one-hundred dollar bills beside it, and walked away!
Use a finer grade of blackpowder... FFF pistol powder would get close to 70 grains.
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