Witness: 'Design' Replaced 'Creation'

AP - Science ^ | 2005-10-05 | MARTHA RAFFAELE

[Junior]

HARRISBURG, Pa. - References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term "intelligent design" by the time it was published, a witness testified Wednesday in a landmark trial over a school board's decision to include the concept in its curriculum.

Drafts of the textbook, "Of Pandas and People," written in 1987 were revised after the Supreme Court ruled in June of that year that states could not require schools to balance evolution with creationism in the classroom, said Barbara Forrest, a philosophy professor at Southeastern Louisiana University.

Forrest reviewed drafts of the textbook as a witness for eight families who are trying to have the intelligent design concept removed from the Dover Area School District's biology curriculum.

The families contend that teaching intelligent design effectively promotes the Bible's view of creation, violating the separation of church and state.

Intelligent design holds that life on Earth is so complex that it must have been the product of some higher force. Opponents of the concept say intelligent design is simply creationism stripped of overt religious references.

Forrest outlined a chart of how many times the term "creation" was mentioned in the early drafts versus how many times the term "design" was mentioned in the published edition.

"They are virtually synonymous," she said.

Under the policy approved by Dover's school board in October 2004, students must hear a brief statement about intelligent design before classes on evolution. The statement says Charles Darwin's theory is "not a fact" and has inexplicable "gaps."

Forrest also said that intelligent-design proponents have freely acknowledged that their cause is a religious one. She cited a document from the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that represents intelligent-design scholars, that says one of its goals is "to replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."

Under cross-examination by school board lawyer Richard Thompson, Forrest acknowledged that she had no evidence that board members who voted for the curriculum change had either seen or heard of the Discovery Institute document.

The trial began Sept. 26 and is expected to last as long as five weeks.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

But, but, I thought ID wasn't about religion?


:)

[plain talk]

ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?

[Junior]

The CrevoSci Archive A service of Darwin Central "The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

1. 2005-10-06 Witness: 'Design' Replaced 'Creation'
2. 2005-10-05 Professor, teachers to testify in intelligent-design trial [Dover, PA, 05 Oct]
3. 2005-10-05 The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2005 goes to Yves Chauvin, Robert H. Grubbs and Richard R. Schrock
4. 2005-10-04 A space station view on giant lightning (May play role in global warming!)
5. 2005-10-04 Ancient Peruvians Loved Their Spuds
6. 2005-10-04 "Cardinal backs evolution and ""intelligent design"""
7. 2005-10-04 Potatoes came from Peru, US study finds
8. 2005-10-04 Space Scientists Seek Sprites, Elves and Jets
9. 2005-10-04 Spider fooled into sex by drop-dead male
10. 2005-10-04 The Bottom Line: Darwinism Promotes Social Disintegration
11. 2005-10-04 The Nobel Prize in Physics 2005 is awarded to Roy J. Glauber, John L. Hall and Theodor W. Hänsch
12. 2005-10-03 Live from Pennsylvania: Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
13. 2005-10-03 Returning to Dover [evolution trial in Dover, PA: week 2]
14. 2005-10-03 Systemic determinants of gene evolution and function
15. 2005-10-03 The timeless truth of creation
16. 2005-10-01 ‘Why?’ versus ‘How?’ [evolution trial in Dover, PA, end of week one]
17. 2005-10-01 Eugenie Scott Makes False Claims About Peer-Reviewed Paper on MSNBC
18. 2005-10-01 For the Anti-Evolutionists, Hope in High Places
19. 2005-10-01 Liars’ brains make fibbing come naturally
20. 2005-10-01 Study: Sun's Changes to Blame for Part of Global Warming
21. 2005-10-01 That Famous Equation and You
22. 2005-09-30 [Pennsylvania] Gov. Rendell backs evolution
23. 2005-09-30 150 attend meeting on 'stupid' theory (including Darwin's great-grandson)
24. 2005-09-30 A remarkable Cassini picture: Hyperion (moon of Saturn)
25. 2005-09-30 An Intelligent Design for Education
26. 2005-09-30 Genes Tied To Recent Brain Evolution
27. 2005-09-30 Grow Some Testables: Intelligent design ducks the rigors of science.
28. 2005-09-30 Orthodoxy and Creationism
29. 2005-09-30 Science and Scripture - 'Intelligent design' theory definitely belongs in biology class
30. 2005-09-30 Spider 'is 20 million years old'
31. 2005-09-30 The ‘Darwinist Inquisition’ Starts Another Round
32. 2005-09-30 The Beauty of Branes [Cosmology & Lisa Randall]
33. 2005-09-30 The Buckingham school: No civil liberties allowed

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CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of October:
 

2004-10-10 Antonello 1998-10-18 AZLiberty 1999-10-14 blam 2000-10-19 cogitator 2001-10-21 Coyoteman 2004-10-26 curiosity 1998-10-29 Dataman 2000-10-29 dila813 2001-10-14 dread78645

1998-10-03 Elsie 1998-10-17 f.Christian 2002-10-08 FairOpinion 2001-10-26 Genesis defender 2000-10-09 Gil4 2000-10-08 guitarist 2004-10-10 joeclarke 1998-10-03 js1138

2000-10-08 LibWhacker 2002-10-25 m1-lightning 2001-10-10 Michael_Michaelangelo 2001-10-09 Mother Abigail 2004-10-25 MRMEAN 2004-10-03 Nicholas Conradin 1999-10-28 PatrickHenry 1998-10-01 Physicist

1998-10-25 plain talk 2005-10-04 ret_medic 2001-10-23 RightWingNilla 2004-10-09 snarks_when_bored 2002-10-22 sumocide 2004-10-21 WildHorseCrash 2001-10-23 yankeedame 2002-10-20 Z in Oregon

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In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:

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ALS Area Freeper Aric2000 Askel5 bluepistolero churchillbuff ConservababeJen DittoJed2

Ed Current f.Christian followerofchrist goodseedhomeschool gore3000 Jedigirl JesseShurun Le-Roy

Marathon medved metacognative Modernman Ogmios peg the prophet Phaedrus Phoroneus

ret_medic RickyJ SeaLion Shubi Tomax tpaine WaveThatFlag xm177e2

Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!
 
 

[Junior]

A Grand Master ping.

[js1138]

ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?

That is what the trial is about, whether ID implies religion.

[PatrickHenry]

EvolutionPing

A pro-evolution science list with over 300 names. See the list's explanation at my freeper homepage. Then FReepmail to be added or dropped. See what's new in The List-O-Links.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion..."


Tell that to the proponents of ID.


"References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term "intelligent design" by the time it was published."

[js1138]

Intelligent design asserts that life is too complex to have evolved, and pretty much stops there.

That, of course, is 99 yards short of the goal line on fourth down.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" Creationists begin with a literal interpretation of the Bible's account of creation,..."

That would be some, but not all of them. Many Creationists are Old Earthers.

"From a layman's perspective (or perhaps to suit their needs, since I doubt the book covered either subject in much detail) intelligent design and creation might appear the same."

Not the same, but two sides of the same coin. ID'ers are still creationists, just not YEC's.

[antiRepublicrat]

ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?

The official line is that ID doesn't even specify a religion. It could have been aliens, etc. This is in an effort to be accepted as science.

In any case, however much smoke you blow, any intelligent person knows which god you're talking about. There is no way that the Discovery Institute will accept that the designer is really the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHH).

[shuckmaster]

References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term "intelligent design" by the time it was published, a witness testified

Do they think they can get past St Peter with a dishonest sneaky underhanded trick like that?

Intelligent design holds that life on Earth is so complex that it must have been the product of some higher force.

Say that three times in a row and try to tell me with a straight face it doesn't sound dumber each time you repeat it!

[r9etb]

I'm not sure why Frevolutionists continue to try and equate the two, because they are drastically different

Not all on the "evolution side" do this, of course -- I've found on many threads that it's quite possible to have a great discussion on the scientific merits/problems of a design hypothesis, and also the underlying assumptions that permit or rule out such a hypothesis.

However, there are also those (one might call them "evolutionists" to denote their ideological stance) whose views are informed at least in part by an antipathy toward religion. This ideological approach causes them to build the strawman you've mentioned. It's much easier to fight a strawman.

Ironically, the rabid "evolutionists" and "creationists" are very similar in their tactics and approach. Both sides seem to view the other as a direct threat to their faiths, and seem completely unable to acknowledge the merits of the opposing position.

[VadeRetro]

That is what the trial is about, whether ID implies religion.

ID is creationism in a lab coat, lying about what it is and what it is up to.

[js1138]

...seem completely unable to acknowledge the merits of the opposing position.

Other than forcing biologists and science writers to sharpen up their arguments, what has ID contributed in the way of actual science?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[MineralMan]

This is a placeholder post. I have no time at this moment to join the thread, but certainly will at a later time today.

It's so nice to have our daily discussion. I always wonder what new revelations will appear. So far, I'm still wondering.

[cryptical]

In any case, however much smoke you blow, any intelligent person knows which god you're talking about. There is no way that the Discovery Institute will accept that the designer is really the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHH).

Diversity of thought, that's what ID allows for. There's the Invisible Pink Unicorn proponents who I respect, then there's my faction: The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (blessed be his noodly appendages).

Because after all if you posit design without defining the designer, it's little different (and just as provable) as any superstitious belief.

Excuse me now, I have to go sacrifice a goat to the Rain God for clear skys this weekend, just in case.

[Alamo-Girl]

Bookmark noted, MineralMan! I look forward to your comments!