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Witness: 'Design' Replaced 'Creation'
AP - Science ^ | 2005-10-05 | MARTHA RAFFAELE

Posted on 10/06/2005 6:13:37 AM PDT by Junior

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1 posted on 10/06/2005 6:13:39 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior

But, but, I thought ID wasn't about religion?


:)


2 posted on 10/06/2005 6:15:24 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?
3 posted on 10/06/2005 6:17:21 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Junior
The CrevoSci Archive
A service of Darwin Central
"The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

  1. 2005-10-06 Witness: 'Design' Replaced 'Creation'
  2. 2005-10-05 Professor, teachers to testify in intelligent-design trial [Dover, PA, 05 Oct]
  3. 2005-10-05 The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2005 goes to Yves Chauvin, Robert H. Grubbs and Richard R. Schrock
  4. 2005-10-04 A space station view on giant lightning (May play role in global warming!)
  5. 2005-10-04 Ancient Peruvians Loved Their Spuds
  6. 2005-10-04 "Cardinal backs evolution and ""intelligent design"""
  7. 2005-10-04 Potatoes came from Peru, US study finds
  8. 2005-10-04 Space Scientists Seek Sprites, Elves and Jets
  9. 2005-10-04 Spider fooled into sex by drop-dead male
  10. 2005-10-04 The Bottom Line: Darwinism Promotes Social Disintegration
  11. 2005-10-04 The Nobel Prize in Physics 2005 is awarded to Roy J. Glauber, John L. Hall and Theodor W. Hänsch
  12. 2005-10-03 Live from Pennsylvania: Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
  13. 2005-10-03 Returning to Dover [evolution trial in Dover, PA: week 2]
  14. 2005-10-03 Systemic determinants of gene evolution and function
  15. 2005-10-03 The timeless truth of creation
  16. 2005-10-01 ‘Why?’ versus ‘How?’ [evolution trial in Dover, PA, end of week one]
  17. 2005-10-01 Eugenie Scott Makes False Claims About Peer-Reviewed Paper on MSNBC
  18. 2005-10-01 For the Anti-Evolutionists, Hope in High Places
  19. 2005-10-01 Liars’ brains make fibbing come naturally
  20. 2005-10-01 Study: Sun's Changes to Blame for Part of Global Warming
  21. 2005-10-01 That Famous Equation and You
  22. 2005-09-30 [Pennsylvania] Gov. Rendell backs evolution
  23. 2005-09-30 150 attend meeting on 'stupid' theory (including Darwin's great-grandson)
  24. 2005-09-30 A remarkable Cassini picture: Hyperion (moon of Saturn)
  25. 2005-09-30 An Intelligent Design for Education
  26. 2005-09-30 Genes Tied To Recent Brain Evolution
  27. 2005-09-30 Grow Some Testables: Intelligent design ducks the rigors of science.
  28. 2005-09-30 Orthodoxy and Creationism
  29. 2005-09-30 Science and Scripture - 'Intelligent design' theory definitely belongs in biology class
  30. 2005-09-30 Spider 'is 20 million years old'
  31. 2005-09-30 The ‘Darwinist Inquisition’ Starts Another Round
  32. 2005-09-30 The Beauty of Branes [Cosmology & Lisa Randall]
  33. 2005-09-30 The Buckingham school: No civil liberties allowed

CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of October:
 

2004-10-10 Antonello
1998-10-18 AZLiberty
1999-10-14 blam
2000-10-19 cogitator
2001-10-21 Coyoteman
2004-10-26 curiosity
1998-10-29 Dataman
2000-10-29 dila813
2001-10-14 dread78645
1998-10-03 Elsie
1998-10-17 f.Christian
2002-10-08 FairOpinion
2001-10-26 Genesis defender
2000-10-09 Gil4
2000-10-08 guitarist
2004-10-10 joeclarke
1998-10-03 js1138
 
2000-10-08 LibWhacker
2002-10-25 m1-lightning
2001-10-10 Michael_Michaelangelo
2001-10-09 Mother Abigail
2004-10-25 MRMEAN
2004-10-03 Nicholas Conradin
1999-10-28 PatrickHenry
1998-10-01 Physicist
1998-10-25 plain talk
2005-10-04 ret_medic
2001-10-23 RightWingNilla
2004-10-09 snarks_when_bored
2002-10-22 sumocide
2004-10-21 WildHorseCrash
2001-10-23 yankeedame
2002-10-20 Z in Oregon

In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:


ALS
Area Freeper
Aric2000
Askel5
bluepistolero
churchillbuff
ConservababeJen
DittoJed2
Ed Current
f.Christian
followerofchrist
goodseedhomeschool
gore3000
Jedigirl
JesseShurun
Le-Roy
Marathon
medved
metacognative
Modernman
Ogmios
peg the prophet
Phaedrus
Phoroneus
ret_medic
RickyJ
SeaLion
Shubi
Tomax
tpaine
WaveThatFlag
xm177e2


Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!
 
 

4 posted on 10/06/2005 6:18:47 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: PatrickHenry

A Grand Master ping.


5 posted on 10/06/2005 6:21:52 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: plain talk
ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?

That is what the trial is about, whether ID implies religion.

6 posted on 10/06/2005 6:27:32 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 300 names.
See the list's explanation at my freeper homepage.
Then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
See what's new in The List-O-Links.

7 posted on 10/06/2005 6:34:02 AM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: Junior; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; MeanWestTexan; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; bondserv; ...
(((Creationist Ping)))



You have been pinged because of your interest regarding matters of Creation vs. Evolution - from the Creationist perspective. Freep-mail me if you want on/off this list.

Colossians 1:16 "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."

From a layman's perspective (or perhaps to suit their needs, since I doubt the book covered either subject in much detail) intelligent design and creation might appear the same. I'm not sure why Frevolutionists continue to attempt to propogate this false point. I will not let it stand.

As the representative of the Free Republic community of creationists, I hereby DENY and REPUDIATE any and all claims that intelligent design is the same as creation. I have said this many times already. Intelligent design asserts that life is too complex to have evolved, and pretty much stops there. They accept evolution, they just assert that it had to have an architect. It's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't go far enough. It's a tenet of creationism, but it's not creationism.

Creationists begin with a literal interpretation of the Bible's account of creation, and investigates science through the Biblical lens.

I'm not sure why Frevolutionists continue to try and equate the two, because they are drastically different, and you'd think this would be readily apparent to anyone with an honest intention of learning the facts. Then again...maybe that's not what they have in mind.
8 posted on 10/06/2005 6:35:09 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As long as liberalism and I exist, neither one of us is safe.)
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To: plain talk

"ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion..."


Tell that to the proponents of ID.


"References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term "intelligent design" by the time it was published."


9 posted on 10/06/2005 6:37:57 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Intelligent design asserts that life is too complex to have evolved, and pretty much stops there.

That, of course, is 99 yards short of the goal line on fourth down.

10 posted on 10/06/2005 6:38:51 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
" Creationists begin with a literal interpretation of the Bible's account of creation,..."

That would be some, but not all of them. Many Creationists are Old Earthers.

"From a layman's perspective (or perhaps to suit their needs, since I doubt the book covered either subject in much detail) intelligent design and creation might appear the same."

Not the same, but two sides of the same coin. ID'ers are still creationists, just not YEC's.
11 posted on 10/06/2005 6:41:46 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: plain talk
ID itself is agnostic about the specific religion but of course belief in a designer implies a religion just not a specific one. Is that clearer?

The official line is that ID doesn't even specify a religion. It could have been aliens, etc. This is in an effort to be accepted as science.

In any case, however much smoke you blow, any intelligent person knows which god you're talking about. There is no way that the Discovery Institute will accept that the designer is really the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHH).

12 posted on 10/06/2005 6:43:34 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Junior
References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term "intelligent design" by the time it was published, a witness testified

Do they think they can get past St Peter with a dishonest sneaky underhanded trick like that?

Intelligent design holds that life on Earth is so complex that it must have been the product of some higher force.

Say that three times in a row and try to tell me with a straight face it doesn't sound dumber each time you repeat it!

13 posted on 10/06/2005 6:43:55 AM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
I'm not sure why Frevolutionists continue to try and equate the two, because they are drastically different

Not all on the "evolution side" do this, of course -- I've found on many threads that it's quite possible to have a great discussion on the scientific merits/problems of a design hypothesis, and also the underlying assumptions that permit or rule out such a hypothesis.

However, there are also those (one might call them "evolutionists" to denote their ideological stance) whose views are informed at least in part by an antipathy toward religion. This ideological approach causes them to build the strawman you've mentioned. It's much easier to fight a strawman.

Ironically, the rabid "evolutionists" and "creationists" are very similar in their tactics and approach. Both sides seem to view the other as a direct threat to their faiths, and seem completely unable to acknowledge the merits of the opposing position.

14 posted on 10/06/2005 6:58:27 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: js1138
That is what the trial is about, whether ID implies religion.

ID is creationism in a lab coat, lying about what it is and what it is up to.

15 posted on 10/06/2005 7:00:47 AM PDT by VadeRetro (general_re RIP WTF???)
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To: r9etb
...seem completely unable to acknowledge the merits of the opposing position.

Other than forcing biologists and science writers to sharpen up their arguments, what has ID contributed in the way of actual science?

16 posted on 10/06/2005 7:07:47 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Thanks for the ping!


17 posted on 10/06/2005 7:15:18 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

This is a placeholder post. I have no time at this moment to join the thread, but certainly will at a later time today.

It's so nice to have our daily discussion. I always wonder what new revelations will appear. So far, I'm still wondering.


18 posted on 10/06/2005 7:19:30 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: antiRepublicrat
In any case, however much smoke you blow, any intelligent person knows which god you're talking about. There is no way that the Discovery Institute will accept that the designer is really the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHH).

Diversity of thought, that's what ID allows for. There's the Invisible Pink Unicorn proponents who I respect, then there's my faction: The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (blessed be his noodly appendages).

Because after all if you posit design without defining the designer, it's little different (and just as provable) as any superstitious belief.

Excuse me now, I have to go sacrifice a goat to the Rain God for clear skys this weekend, just in case.

19 posted on 10/06/2005 7:19:38 AM PDT by cryptical
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To: MineralMan

Bookmark noted, MineralMan! I look forward to your comments!


20 posted on 10/06/2005 7:32:28 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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