Homosexuals Challenge Ban on Blood Donations

A Red Cross division in Australia will be forced to defend its refusal to accept blood donations from homosexuals after a statutory anti-discrimination body agreed to take up a legal complaint.

Michael Cain wants the state of Tasmania's Anti-Discrimination Commission to find that the Australian Red Cross Blood Service (ARCBS) acted in a discriminatory manner when it refused to take blood from him because he was a sexually active homosexual.

Cain's lawyers argue that by refusing to accept blood from Cain, the ARCBS contravened anti-discrimination legislation passed in Tasmania in 1998.

The law says "a person must not discriminate against another person on the ground of sexual orientation [or] lawful sexual activity."

In a statement about his experience, Cain said he was filling out forms ahead of donating blood when he came to one which asked: "Have you engaged in male-to-male sex in the last 12 months?"

"At this point I felt that I was being personally violated in a way. I couldn't believe that they were asking about sex let alone singling out male-to-male sex when people could easily lie anyway. I answered truthfully."

A Red Cross staffer subsequently told him he could not donate blood, explaining that "gay men have a higher risk of carrying contaminated blood due to unsafe sexual practices."

Cain was upset that he was not given the opportunity to have his blood tested, which he said would have proved that he did not have HIV/AIDS.

"If all blood is tested, there is no reason why I too should not be given the opportunity to prove that I have healthy blood. I resent the fact that I am not allowed to help people in need."

According to its eligibility guidelines, the ARCBS declines any request to donate blood if the prospective donor has, in the previous 12 months, had "male to male sex."

But it will also not take blood within 12 months of other activities considered to increase the level of risk - including a person having had a tattoo, a blood transfusion, a body piercing, been in prison, had sex with a prostitute or having had a partner with hepatitis B or C.

In some cases, such as when a person has injected drugs not prescribed by a doctor, the ARCBS will permanently not accept blood.

In their legal brief, Cain's lawyers said that the ARCBS may try to point out that it is not acting in a discriminatory manner because it also won't take blood in other instances, such as from a person who has been a prison inmate or staffer within the past year.

But there is an important distinction, they argue - "gay men cannot and do not choose to be gay."

In a recent speech, Tasmanian Gay and Lesbian Rights Group campaigner Rodney Croome attacked the blood donation policy.

"The current gay blood ban says that no matter how careful gay and bisexual men are in guarding themselves from infection, there is still something inherently risky in a man making love to another man," he said.

"This prompts gay and bisexual men to ask, if safe sex isn't good enough to protect public health, is it good enough protect my own health. When it comes to public policy, could there be any greater disincentive for gay and bisexual men to bother with sex safe?"

Peter Stokes, executive director of a Christian ethical action group Salt Shakers, called the case "yet another politically orchestrated attempt to force society to ignore all the clear and undeniable health risks associated with the homosexual lifestyle using a undemocratic government body [the anti-discrimination commission]."

Rather than the ARCBS having to justify its policy, Stokes said he believed the ban should be extended to "all people who engage in promiscuous sexual activity, not just homosexuals."

"This is not about discrimination. This is about \lang3081 discerning what is right and wrong for the majority of Australians according to the evidence," he said, adding that more than 80 percent of HIV/AIDS infections in Australia arise from men having sex with men.

Croome argued in a statement that countries like Spain, Switzerland and Italy have lifted prohibitions on accepting blood donations from homosexuals.

He made no reference to the situation in the U.S., however, where American Red Cross eligibility guidelines appear to be considerably stricter than those in Australia which are now being challenged.

"You should not give blood if you have AIDS or have ever had a positive HIV test, or if you have done something that puts you at risk for becoming infected with HIV," they say.

"You are at risk for getting infected if you ... are a male who has had sexual contact with another male, even once, since 1977."

But the in uterus thesis I was suggesting could also be applicable here as a deficiency in the womb could affect both developing twins.

I would expect a true genetic feature would be much higher then ten times as high in identical twins. But I agree there could be something genetic in the mix. It simply would have to have a mechanism that is not completely genetic. Thus you have in the womb mechanisms such as a chemical deficiency during sexual identity development or a tramatic situation at a critical developmental period of the child's growth.

A really interesting speculation about the cause of homosexuality I've read is that it is caused by an infectious agent, one that the mother would contract while the (future) homosexual is developing in the womb. This was proposed by Gregory Cochran, a maverick physicist-turned-geneticist. He argues that homosexuality cannot be genetic because if it were, it would have been selected out of the population because gay men have only 20% as many children as straight men. He also argues that it is known that there are viruses that have odd and very specific effects on the brain. He claims that homosexuality is not uniformly distributed in the population, it is much more common in big cities and almost unheard-of in rural, traditional societies -- this is consistent with an infectious agent. He further points out that there are only two species where exclusive male homosexuality is found. (Homosexual behavior is observed in many species, but in almost all cases, if the male individual has the opportunity to mate with a female, the male will take that opportunity.) The only other species with exclusive male homosexuality is (I'm not making this up) sheep. It happens that 8% of all rams are homo. Cochran suggests there is an as-yet-unidentified infectious agent that causes this in sheep (again, it cannot be genetic because it would be selected out quickly) -- and he suggests humans acquired this agent from sheep, just as we acquired such diseases as syphilis from sheep.

But other theories are also interesting. Focus on the Family seems to favor the older, Freudian or psychological explanations -- these have as good predictive power as anything does, even though mainstream psychiatry seems to have abandoned them. This is reinforced by research that indicates that 75% of boys identified as sissy grow up to be gay. (However: boys who are sissies may be sissies because of a preexisting condition that predisposes them to homosexuality as well as being sissies.)

(Identical twin stats)

But of course, even though there appears to be a strong genetic component to homosexuality, it is certain that it doesn't cause homosexuality, it only increases the odds.

If h. was genetic then identical twins (who share the same genetic code) would be uniformly one or the other. The fact that they aren't point far more to environmental than to genetic. (that is if one twin is molested his brother is highly likely to be molested also)

If you could remove the common environmental aspects of it (that is, raise the twins separately) it would be easier to isolate any proposed genetic link. Of course it would be unethical to do so.

The causes of Same-sex Attraction Disorder (SAD) are very strongly documented. Absent or insufficient relationship with one's father, being molested or otherwise abused, relentless teasing by one's peers during the formative years. Every study suggesting a genetic cause or link has been debunked. Read scripter's database (linked priorly in this thread I believe) and get educated.

Homosexuality is a contagious mental disease passed from one molestor to his victim

He claims that homosexuality is not uniformly distributed in the population, it is much more common in big cities and almost unheard-of in rural, traditional societies -- this is consistent with an infectious agent.

This is also consistent with mentally damaged individuals flocking to the big cities where their disease is more tolerated and thus more damaged individuals are preying upon the innocent youth of those cities (causing yet more damaged individuals). In a small rural area the active SAD is likely to be shunned as damaged (as they should be) and the children are more protected from contact with the sexually perverse.

While the behavior may follow infectious disease patterns (one 'infected' passes it one to his victim) there does not need to be a biological agent involved for this pattern to be followed. A similar pattern is seen in cults such as scientology. One infected person can pass the same mental damage on to his victims (recruits)

if one twin is molested his brother is highly likely to be molested also

Indeed, the Bailey and Pillard studies did not control for environment. However, their research (J. M. Bailey and R. Pillard, "A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation," Archives of General Psychiatry 48 (1991) 1089-196) compared concordance of homosexuality in monozygotic (identical) twins and dizygotic (fraternal) twins, as well as in adoptive brothers. They found that monozygotic twins have 50% concordance, dizygotic twins have a 25% concordance, while adoptive twins have a concordance no greater than chance. This would be typical of a trait that's 50% genetic in origin (but of course, genetics is not by itself the cause of homosexuality -- but it plays a major role -- if this research is correct).

Homosexuality is a contagious mental disease passed from one molestor to his victim

This is another at best unverified theory for the cause of homosexuality. The problem with this theory is that there are many victims of molestation, yet only some of them turn out gay. I will venture to guess: Fewer molestation victims become gay (by percent) than monozygotic twin brothers of homosexual men turn out gay. At any rate, some homosexuals do seek sex with underage boys, but most do not.

Another theory I read of links homosexuality with childhood sexual experiences with peers. Sounds good in theory -- but it turns out heterosexuals are just as likely to have had childhood sexual experiences with peers.

get educated

Oh, golly -- I know more about this subject than I care to -- it's affected my family, and being scientifically trained, I've read quite a bit about it.

The problem with this theory is that there are many victims of molestation, yet only some of them turn out gay. I will venture to guess: Fewer molestation victims become gay (by percent) than monozygotic twin brothers of homosexual men turn out gay.

A. A molestation victim with a sound support network (that is, a good relationship with his father) is far more likely to recover from the mental trauma of the molestation, Just as he is more likely to recover from any other trauma.

The relationship with the father turns out to be the critical factor. (Which also goes a long way towards explaining why sexual perversion seems to be on the upswing.) No fathers = more sexual deviants.

B. There is no such thing as a 'homosexual man' with a monozygotic twin. There are only previously diseased men with twins. The only thing we know about the first twin is that he participates in homosexual activity (That is, is afflicted with SAD). In most cases his twin is raised in the same environment, exposed to the same molestation risk and the same relationship with their father.

At any rate, some homosexuals do seek sex with underage boys, but most do not.

According to "The Gay Report" 74% of active homosexuals report having had sexual relations with minors. It is a recurring theme in 'gay' literature and to this date as far as I know no 'gay' organization has ever repudiated NAMBLA. (Unfortunately the gay report is not available on the web as far as I know. If you can find it please ping me to it)

(Any exposure of children to homosexuality is child abuse)

me->get educated

you->Oh, golly -- I know more about this subject than I care to -- it's affected my family, and being scientifically trained, I've read quite a bit about it.

Obviously not educated enough yet. Read scripter's database and learn the truth. (He posted a few links up thread) We've been tracking the agenda for years and have studied almost every study that's come out. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM as a political ploy. There was not then, nor is there now any scientific reason to call it anything but a mental disease.

BTW. Lots of us here have been affected by this disease. It is in our families and I know of several recovered abuse victims and even a few folks who have been healed of their SAD (Same-sex Attraction Disorder).

My strong suspicion is that there are multiple or overlapping causes of homosexuality: I don't doubt that molestation is a contributing factor if not a major cause. But I know for a fact that many gay men were not molested as children. (Some gay men weren't molested by adults as children, but had premature sexual experiences with peers. However, this sort of thing is common among boys and most of the participants don't turn out gay.) You mentioned another cause: relentless teasing by peers. This is a common experience reported by gay men. I think I already mentioned the study that found that 75% of all boys identified as sissies by their peers become gay men.

I think you are correct about the importance of the father. This theory is at least as predictive as any of the others. Another theory is the "exotic becomes erotic" theory of the psychologist Darrrel Bem (Cornell University). This is the theory that boys are programmed to become sexually attracted to the gender they are separated from in their pre-teen years. Normally, boys avoid girls in this critical time frame; but if a boy is rejected by peers and plays with the girls (common among "sissies"), it's the male gender that becomes fascinating to the unfortunate boy -- he turns out gay.

I can't find The Gay Report on the web either; it was a book that appeared in the late 1970s. I have no reason to question the 74% figure; but the exact quote (as found on the web) is that this is the fraction of gay men who report sexual experiences "with boys 17 to 19 years or younger". What fraction of these are having sex with boys (younger than college-aged) I am unable to determine. Sexual attraction to someone aged 17 to 19 is not considered to be a mental illness. (Not that I would ever defend such behavior: where I used to teach, there was a middle-aged prof who had a habit of hitting on the coeds. He got into big trouble.)

I'm sorry to hear that your family has also been affected by these issues. I have friends, relatives and collegues who are gay (hard to avoid if you work in a university environment). Most of these are decent, quiet people. But I do sense a feeling of hurt in them, or a sadness and feeling of loss in some of them. And I reflect on the recent report that found that 25% of all sexually active urban gay men have HIV. I pray for them.

Most of these are decent, quiet people.

My moral standing prohibits me from classing them as decent. However they are in many cases nice relatively good people once you get past their chosen sexual behavior. (All sexual behavior is chosen). Likewise I know several other mentally ill people who are also nice, good people.

But I do sense a feeling of hurt in them, or a sadness and feeling of loss in some of them. And I reflect on the recent report that found that 25% of all sexually active urban gay men have HIV. I pray for them.

Most of the SAD's that I've met are usually depressed and feeling unfulfilled. Which is only natural as they are voluntarily foregoing their natural place in the world.

I also pray for the SAD's. For most the prayer is "Father God please save them and change them and deliver them from the lifestyle they are trapped in". For the 'homosexual' activists the prayer becomes "Father God, Please save them, change them and deliver them. But if they refuse to be saved and changed, kill them before they drag others into hell with them"

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