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Spider 'is 20 million years old'
BBCNews ^ | 9/30/05 | BBCNEWS

Posted on 09/30/2005 9:17:27 AM PDT by bigmac0707

A scientist has described a spider that was trapped and preserved in amber 20 million years ago.

Palaeontologist Dr David Penney, of the University of Manchester, found the 4cm long by 2cm wide fossil during a visit to a museum in the Dominican Republic.

Since the discovery two years ago, he has used droplets of blood in the amber to reveal the age of the specimen.

It is thought to be the first time spider blood has been found in amber and scientists hope to extract its DNA.

Dr Penney, of the School of Earth, Atmospheric and Environmental Sciences, said he had used the blood droplets to trace how, when and where the spider died.

It is a new species from the Filistatidae family commonly found in South America and the Caribbean.

Dr Penney believes it was climbing up a tree 20 million years ago when it was hit on the head by fast flowing resin, became engulfed in the resin and died.

He claims the shape and position of the blood droplets revealed which direction the spider was travelling in and which of its legs broke first.

"It's amazing to think that a single piece of amber with a single spider in it can open up a window into what was going on 20 million years ago," he said.

"By analysing the position of the spider's body in relation to the droplets of blood in the amber we are able to determine how it died, which direction it was travelling in and even how fast it was moving."

He first saw the fossil during a visit to the Museo del Ambar Dominicano, in Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic.

Dr Penney reports his findings in the latest issue of the journal Palaeontology.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: amber; archeology; crevolist; fossils; godsgravesglyphs; lookbackinamber; palaeontology; paleontology; science
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To: mlc9852
While I am not in favor of burning books (even those written by liberals), I believe some books are not acceptable for children.

No argument there.

141 posted on 09/30/2005 11:09:08 AM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman
Godless physics? That claims some knowledge of the universe and how it came about? Has to go! Cosmology too.

Hey, don't forget that the bible claims that the sun stopped in it's tracks for a day. So that godless "conservation of angular momentum" has to be tossed out as well. And I don't even want to think about the parting of the Dead Sea and it's implications for teaching hydrology...

142 posted on 09/30/2005 11:09:35 AM PDT by blowfish
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To: blowfish

No one says you have to believe in miracles. But that hardly means miracles can't and don't happen. Narrow little world you reside in I suppose.


143 posted on 09/30/2005 11:10:40 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Not THAT Christina!

THIS Christina
zindy.zone.dk

It was HARD to find a decent picture of her -- she looks just like the other skanks now.
144 posted on 09/30/2005 11:16:59 AM PDT by hombre_sincero (www.spadata.com)
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To: hombre_sincero
God can! and did in the Bible using the terms evening and morning, therefore try 24 hours is a day.
145 posted on 09/30/2005 11:17:48 AM PDT by BillT
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To: BillT

Can you imagine 145 posts all about a little spider stuck in amber?

GOD CAN! But did he?!

"that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Pet. 3:8; cf. Ps. 90:4), that light was created on the first day, but the sun was not created till the fourth day (Gen. 1:3, 16), and that Adam was told he would die the same "day" as he ate of the tree, yet he lived to be 930 years old (Gen. 2:17, 5:5).


146 posted on 09/30/2005 11:21:41 AM PDT by hombre_sincero (www.spadata.com)
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To: Tim Long
You were right. It also doesn't work on things that are too young. Live clams have been dating as having been dead for years. So basically, the whole dating system is crap.

I did a long piece on radiocarbon dating yesterday, including a discussion of dating live clams. Reference is:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1493403/posts?page=211#211

Carbon-14 dating actually works pretty well, but not on living organisms because of the World War II era atomic tests. Also, clams and other marine organisms can absorb reservoir carbon from deep waters, and that needs to be taken into account.

147 posted on 09/30/2005 11:29:30 AM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: edsheppa

"Evolution, being a scientific theory, predicts there will be at least 20M years of difference."

Not really. If the design was good enough for the spider to have babies that had babies (and so on), there would be no environmental pressure, and hence no evolution (although there would be aimless "drift" of DNA).

Think about the common roach, which has largely remained unchanged.

Just from looks, I bet this bit of nastiness is pretty close to the current models, so the DNA would not be terribly different.


148 posted on 09/30/2005 11:44:07 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (A good friend helps you move. A great friend helps you move a body.)
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To: mlc9852

"It is apparently the evolutionists' arguments which need serious work so since few people actually believe it. And once the schools throw in the ID, even fewer will believe it."

Most people don't know the Earth orbits the Sun.

Seriously.


149 posted on 09/30/2005 11:45:21 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (A good friend helps you move. A great friend helps you move a body.)
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To: hombre_sincero

"BCE is nothing more than the latest new age crap! The years mark the time in reference to the Birth of Jesus Christ! "




Oh, my! You are worked up, aren't you. Well, here's the deal. Scientists come in all religions, and none at all in some cases. Christianity is the religion of less than 1/3 of the population of the world.

So, science uses BCE for dates, since than nomenclature has nothing to do with religion. More often, when dealing with fossils, they use BP, which is short for Before Present.

Guess what? Science uses the metric system, too.

So, calm down, please. Nobody's out to get you or destroy your beliefs.


150 posted on 09/30/2005 11:57:46 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: mlc9852

> the name-calling continues.

And what "name calling" would that be? Me, I'd be offended at being called a "Creationist," just as I would at being called a "Democrat," a "Muslim" or a "woman." But that offense comes at being factually inaccurately labelled. Those who actually are such things tend to not be offended at being called such. So, if you think "Creationist" is an insulting name for Creationists... take it up with them.


151 posted on 09/30/2005 12:01:56 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: MeanWestTexan
and hence no evolution (although there would be aimless "drift" of DNA).

"Aimless drift" of DNA is also evolution.

And contrary to your claim, if we were convinced that the spider died 20Mya, and that DNA was not contaminated etc., and the DNA were the same as some modern species, some fundamental assumption of the theory of evolution would be proven wrong.

152 posted on 09/30/2005 12:05:48 PM PDT by edsheppa
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To: hombre_sincero

"Only the Christina United States of America and other WESTERN Christina based countries "

Hilarious! Your sense of humor is amazing. I had you pegged as a Christian, and now you're making Christina jokes. Boy, you had me fooled.

Christina forever!


153 posted on 09/30/2005 12:06:22 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: mlc9852

> I believe some books are not acceptable for children.

Well, ok. So since we are often hit with the notion that evolution should not be taught in schools, as the conspt is too difficult for the little kiddies, and that the whole question of origins be restricted to those of college-age or better... let's keep religion from the kids too. No Bibles, Bible school, religious books or teaching for kids until they are ready for advanced placement laboratory science experiments.


154 posted on 09/30/2005 12:10:58 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam

Silly - there are no Bibles in schools. The ACLU made sure of that.


155 posted on 09/30/2005 12:12:25 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: TheGhostOfTomPaine; hombre_sincero; Alter Kaker

Given that many if not most scholars believe that December 25th was chosen by the early church to replace the Saturnalia, and that there is great argument about whether or not Jesus was even born sometime in the year 1 at all, I don't see why some people get so bent out of shape at "BCE."


156 posted on 09/30/2005 12:13:48 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: mlc9852
It was my understanding the burning of the mural was in response to the genitals, not evolution

Oh, well that's okay then. And those fig leaves really do improve those filthy Greek and Roman satues that are wont to lead us all to damnation and ruin.

157 posted on 09/30/2005 12:15:07 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: hombre_sincero; SedVictaCatoni
No, this Kristina!!! She makes my teeth sweat...


158 posted on 09/30/2005 12:16:38 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps (3-0 The September Jinx is broken!!! Who Dey! Who Dey! Who Dey Think Gonna Beat Dem Bengals!!!)
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To: mlc9852

> there are no Bibles in schools.

If some books should be kept from children because the knowledge within them is too much for the little tykes, then that ban should include more than just schools.

Since the Bible is packed with porn and violence, one should consider keepign knowledge of it from children until they have demonstrated a mastery of forensic science.


159 posted on 09/30/2005 12:18:44 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam

Oh, I agree. There are many parts of the Bible not suitable for young children.


160 posted on 09/30/2005 12:20:45 PM PDT by mlc9852
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