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A poem for all (I think that you have never got, A poem as lovely as this zot)
me | 09/24/2005 | Creeper, as told to Joyce Killmore-Trolles

Posted on 09/24/2005 11:23:20 AM PDT by creeperdavis

A poem


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: almostover; cheeseeating; devowashere; du; dummie; gettinjiggy; heyoverhere; himonkeyface; iamnotasausage; irrelephant; iwonderedhowlongakey; juliamoore; justaddwater; molassesmiasma; momgoes2college; movelikebutter; penguinhumor; rhymeswithpot; surrendermonkey; thunderbutt; troll; vastusexternus; zot; zottageareus
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To: Tax-chick
Stil raining.
2,021 posted on 10/12/2005 8:49:08 AM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("We don't want a Supreme Court justice just like George W. Bush. We can do better.")
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To: King Prout

Thanks, KP, for your warm introduction.

I'd like to preface this post with a preemptive apology for any mistakes that I may be about to make. I am, indeed, a n00b. So, mea culpa, in advance.

I spoke with my brother about a resolution that is to be put forth at the 222nd Convention of the Episcopal Diocese of Pennsylvania on November 5, 2005. You may read the text of the resolution below (if I manage to cut/paste properly) or you may view it on the diocesan web page (www.diopa.org) under the heading "Proposed Resolutions".
This is resolution 10.

The gist of the resolution is that the author wants the Episcopal Church to ask George W. Bush to publicly beg God and the world's forgiveness for the war in Iraq and to establish a "National Day of Pennance" on which we all get to do the same. Doesn't that sound lovely?

While I support the author's rights to think as he does, and to write a letter to the President asking for these things on his own behalf, I strenuously object to my church requesting it on my behalf (as a member of the church), especially when my opinion has not been consulted.
Had I been consulted, I would have said that the author was a blithering idiot and that he should go blither elsewhere----a purely emotional response. Unfortunately, I'm still so stunned that this resolution is slated to be proposed, that I am unable to wrap my brain around his feeble "explanation" and crush it as I ought. (Landed Trout Syndrome is a truly debilitating affliction.)

I turned to Prout to ask for his and your help. He said to post the resolution here, so I shall. Have at it, ladies and gentleman. I appreciate any and all help you choose to render.

Yours,

Alice


DIOCESE OF PENNSYLVANIA
222ND CONVENTION
NOVEMBER 5, 2005 R-10-2005

ON REPENTENCE FOR THE WAR ON IRAQ
RESOLVED: That the 222nd Convention of the Diocese of Pennsylvania calls upon George W. Bush, the president of the United States of America to make a full confession before God and the Peoples of the entire World for his complicity in unjustly waging war on Iraq.

RESOLVED: The 222nd Convention of the Diocese of Pennsylvania call upon the President and Congress of the United States of America to create a National Day of Penance. On that day, all United States Citizens will be called on to publicly confess our sins that allowed this unjust war to be waged and to ask for the world’s forgiveness.

RESOLVED: The 222nd Convention of the Diocese of Pennsylvania instructs the secretary of this convention to file the following resolution with the Office o the General Convention of the Episcopal Church at the earliest possible date:

Resolved: The House of __________ concurring, that the 75th General
Convention of the Episcopal Church calls upon George W. Bush, the President of the United States of America to make a full confession before God and the Peoples of the entire World for his complicity in unjustly waging a war on Iraq.

Be it further resolved: The House of __________ concurring, that the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church calls upon the President and the Congress of the United States of America to create a National Day of Penance. On that day, all United States Citizens will be called on to publicly confess our sins that allowed this unjust war to be waged and to ask for the world’s forgiveness.

EXPLANATION: The war in Iraq has failed to meet the following principles of a “just war”:
• A just war can only be waged as a last resort.
o At the time that the war was launched UN inspectors were on the ground in Iraq making progress in determining that Iraq had no threat of weapons of mass destruction. The UN inspectors were forced to abandon their work so that the war could start.
• A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority.
o The legitimacy of the US to interfere with the sovereign nation of Iraq without a UN mandate is certainly questionable, and may well violate this principle.

R-10-05
Page 1 of 3
• A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered.
o During the time prior to the beginning of this war, Iraq had not attacked the US, nor any of its allies. Neither did Iraq pose any threat to do so. As it turned out Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction with to make such a threat, and so we essentially attacked an innocent nation.
• A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success.
o While the “Shock and Awe” tactic was able to quickly destroy the government in power in Iraq, the US government chose to send many fewer troops than competent military advisors had recommended, and so utter chaos followed the initial attack, and continues to this day.
• The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace.
o This may be the stated goal, but peace is a long way from being achieved, with the prospects of civil war looming.
• The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered.
o Since Iraq has not inflicted any damage on the US, except for the troops involved in the war, and since reliable estimates are that we killed upwards of 100,000 Iraqi people, we have certainly violated this principle.
• The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants.
o The tactic of “Shock and Awe” caused many more civilian casualties than military casualties. Little care has been taken since the initial stages of the war to protect Iraqi civilians.
Submitted by:
The Rev. Charles A. Kapps

References:

Pro:
Just War Tradition, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Letter to President Bush on Iraq, from Bishop Wilton D. Gregory, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Office of Social Development & World Peace, September 13, 2002.

“Perils of Preemptive War; Why America’s place in the world will shift---for the worse—if we attack Iraq,“ by William Galston, September 23, 2002.

“A Just War?” by Jean Bethke Elshtain, Boston Globe, Oct 6, 2002.

“War should be our last resort,” by David Blankenhorn, William A. Galston and John Kelsay, Orlando Sentinel, November 10, 2002.

Every War Must End, second revised edition, Fred Charles Ikle, Columbia University Press, New York, 2005.
R-10-05
Page 2 of 3

Book 19, City of God, St. Augustine.

The Summa Theologica, St. Thomas Aquinas, (Benziger Bros. edition, 1947, Translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province, SECOND PART OF THE SECOND PART (QQ. 1-189), Question 40.

Luke 14:31–32

Con:

REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES – Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century, A Report of The Project for the New American Century, September 2000.

“Now, Only Preemption is Containment,” by Keith Pavlischek, March 7, 2003.

President Speech, War on Terror, at Naval Academy Commencement, Navy Marine Corps Memorial Stadium Annapolis, Maryland, George W. Bush, May 27, 2005.

1st and 2nd Inaugural Addresses – George W. Bush.

2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses – George W. Bush.





2,022 posted on 10/12/2005 8:49:14 AM PDT by Alice au Wonderland
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To: Alice au Wonderland; sionnsar; Neets; Darksheare; scott0347; timpad; Conspiracy Guy; ...
everyone - the sis... sis - everyone.

basic introductions accomplished. Yay.

Alice au Wonderland,
let me know if you wish to be added to the "One Ping" RKBA ping-list. If troll-hunting is not your thing, but the Undead Threadery IS, you will wish to contact sionnsar and get on his list. Welcome to the party, sibling!

All,
see the sis' inceptual post #2022

2,023 posted on 10/12/2005 8:55:21 AM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: Huber; TaxRelief

Episcopal weirdness (post above this).


2,024 posted on 10/12/2005 8:56:30 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When bad things happen, conservatives get over it!)
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

konichiwa, shapka-san. genki desu ka?


2,025 posted on 10/12/2005 8:58:00 AM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham

konichiwa, shapka-san. genki desu ka?


2,026 posted on 10/12/2005 9:00:03 AM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: Tax-chick; Alice au Wonderland

I'd post a transcription of what The Mom had to say while on the phone with The Sis this morning, but it'd violate beyond violation the posting guidelines.


2,027 posted on 10/12/2005 9:02:04 AM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: Alice au Wonderland; King Prout
Welcome FRiend

I also support the author's rights to have his opinion. I also believe you or many others in the church should have been consulted before he put your church as a co-writer supporting his own veiwpoint.

Is there a possibility of submitting another resolution completely supporting our president? This would do two things; defeating this resolution and showing Mr Kapps that he is using the wrong stage to push his views
2,028 posted on 10/12/2005 9:02:06 AM PDT by scott0347 (Commander of the 0347th Lancer Brigade, Operator of the Immaculate Steamroller)
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To: Alice au Wonderland; King Prout
Wow.

And here I thought KP was sui generis.

;-)

Wilkommen!

-good times, G.J.P. (Jr.)

2,029 posted on 10/12/2005 9:02:34 AM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("We don't want a Supreme Court justice just like George W. Bush. We can do better.")
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To: Alice au Wonderland; King Prout; Petronski

Welcome...Hope you brought enough ale for everyone. Scrumps Scrumps a toast to the UT home, biggest thread I've ever known, look at your glass it's empty all foam, scrumps scrumps SCCCCCCCRRRRRRRRRRUMPS!


2,030 posted on 10/12/2005 9:05:49 AM PDT by cyborg (I'm on the 24 plan having the best day ever.)
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To: Alice au Wonderland
What a major crock of blithering idiocy..glad I'm a Druid, we don't deal with these issues.
(Reformed Driud actually, we're allowed to pray at a Leyland Cypress)

Other than that, welcome to FR Alice and thank you for exposing another idiot.

2,031 posted on 10/12/2005 9:06:17 AM PDT by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: King Prout

Aha. I'll just remember what OldTax-lady has said about some of the wackier pronouncements of her Regional Presbytery. She has quite a vocabulary, for a Distinguished Older Professional Person.


2,032 posted on 10/12/2005 9:06:55 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When bad things happen, conservatives get over it!)
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To: Alice au Wonderland

I like cake.


2,033 posted on 10/12/2005 9:06:55 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Alice au Wonderland

I like cake.


2,034 posted on 10/12/2005 9:06:57 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Dead Corpse

With ice cream and champagne.


2,035 posted on 10/12/2005 9:07:48 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When bad things happen, conservatives get over it!)
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To: Tax-chick

and strawberries..


2,036 posted on 10/12/2005 9:11:51 AM PDT by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: Tax-chick
No fair... we got twice as much cake as we did ice cream and champagne...

That is just wrong. ;-)

2,037 posted on 10/12/2005 9:11:54 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: cyborg
What you said.
2,038 posted on 10/12/2005 9:12:50 AM PDT by Do not dub me shapka broham ("We don't want a Supreme Court justice just like George W. Bush. We can do better.")
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To: Alice au Wonderland
The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants

I guess the foreign nationals setting off car bombs in Iraq and killing civilians and recruits didn't get this memo.

And after talking to some vets, my buddy Larry included, I can tell you that the ROE in-country lean towards no pre-emptive fire-fights.
IOW, don't fire unless you're fired on.
Don't return fire if there are identifiable non-combatant LIPs in the vicinity.
What a crock...

2,039 posted on 10/12/2005 9:15:57 AM PDT by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: Alice au Wonderland; King Prout
Welcome aboard, Princess Prout, Sister of the King. From your post, sounds like somebody needs a Spell of Sensibility cast. Either that, or a good ping (the aluminum baseball bat kind.)

I have both handy, if required.
2,040 posted on 10/12/2005 9:27:53 AM PDT by timpad (The Wizard Tim, Keeper of the Holy Hand Grenade, Finder of Obscurata)
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