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LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!
SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

Posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:37 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2005election; agenda; agenda2010; america; angelamerkel; bush; cdu; cducsu; chancellor; change; christiandemocrat; conservatism; conservative; conservatives; economicreform; election; europe; fdp; flattax; generalelection; germanelection; germany; haha; livethread; merkel; poll; polls; prousa; rats; schroeder; spd; usa; vote
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To: frankiep
Oh jeez, a CDU minister from Bavaria on CNN right now just blamed the poor showing for the CDU on the FDP taking their votes. If this is the CDU leadership its no wonder that we are seeing these results today

Get used to it, it called eating your political own.

An almost Olympic sport to a small but very vocal minority on FR(i.e buchanan/tancredo supporters).

221 posted on 09/18/2005 11:54:40 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: frankiep

" what the hell is the problem with Germany?"

Germans ?


222 posted on 09/18/2005 11:55:42 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: Lessismore
She has the FPD to her right, and to the left is the SPD, Schroeder's party. So most likely she abandons the FPD and tries to do a deal with Schroeder?

Like I said before, I am not knowledgable on the inner machinations of German politics, but there is an old American political saying, that Merkal is in a pickle, given these election results.

Is it possible she could peel away some SPD'ers.

223 posted on 09/18/2005 11:58:16 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: wolf78
Conscripts?? Germany has conscripts????

Hail Mary, what good are they?

From what I see, the Pennsylvania Boy Scouts could kick some real azz over there.

Sarcasm aside, such weakness is an open invitation to hegemony from anywhere, which is what is happening with Iran, and will continue, no matter what EU types are allied with them.
224 posted on 09/18/2005 12:05:55 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: No Blue States
My last name is German, my fathers side came from there.

So is mine. But remember we did impeach him, and that is a very rare thing even if the vote failed.

And I am very pessimestic about Germany emerging from the swamp of Socialism at all.

225 posted on 09/18/2005 12:14:13 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: MadIvan
"Blair is likely to keep Germany at arm's length;

What do you mean?

226 posted on 09/18/2005 12:20:54 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: alessandrofiaschi; Admin Moderator

Based on what we now know, the title is premature/misleading, should we change it?


227 posted on 09/18/2005 12:24:08 PM PDT by NYC Republican
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To: bill1952

There was talk that Blair would be able to improve relations with Germany if Merkel took office. That appears to be an idle hope.

Regards, Ivan


228 posted on 09/18/2005 12:24:40 PM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: SunkenCiv

This is good news.

All I really know about Germany is what my son tells me -- he has been stationed there for two years and hopes to remain there another year. He loves it.
However, he says the German men are sissyboys who wear tight knit shirts, capri pants, carry purses and giggle like school girls. He said they are completely intimidated by the Turks in Germany who operate in gangs to beat up people and steal paychecks, and who have no respect for the all the things that make Germany a wonderful place.


229 posted on 09/18/2005 12:32:10 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: MadIvan

Thanks Ivan. I didn't know that relations between Germany and England had been strained.

All you hear from the MSM here is that it's only America and Big Bad Bush that has anything less than perfect harmony with other nations.


230 posted on 09/18/2005 12:36:23 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: bill1952

Oh God no - Blair and Schroeder don't get on at all. Blair despises Chirac too.

Regards, Ivan


231 posted on 09/18/2005 12:41:34 PM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: ValerieUSA

dang - looks like I posted too soon ....


232 posted on 09/18/2005 12:53:58 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: ValerieUSA
and who have no respect for the all the things that make Germany a wonderful place.

From what you posted, it looks as if the German people don't either.

233 posted on 09/18/2005 12:57:55 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: NYC Republican

Yes, I agree


234 posted on 09/18/2005 12:58:31 PM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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To: ValerieUSA

No doubt, there's a testosterone shortage in Germany. But some of the women pick up the slack.


235 posted on 09/18/2005 1:00:55 PM PDT by riri
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To: All

Lots of hilariously ignorant and stupid rubbish being posted here by people who have NO idea whatsoever about modern Germany and its social, political and economic systems.

The result has been a surprise in that Merkel did so badly. My view is that it was appointing Kirchhof, the flat-tax reform advocate, to her future cabinet which torpedoed her chances. That was a non-starter and complete vote-loser. Dumb!

Things will be interesting in the next few days, as coalition talks get under way and the results become more precise. However, whether a few more percent would have changed things is debatable; Merkel is no Thatcher.

A Grand Coalition wouldn't be the worst option, given the voting patterns.

So calm down, everyone.


236 posted on 09/18/2005 1:01:07 PM PDT by ukman
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To: ValerieUSA

This is an amazing statement. Where on earth is he stationed?


237 posted on 09/18/2005 1:02:48 PM PDT by ukman
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To: ukman

He's in Bavaria.


238 posted on 09/18/2005 1:07:45 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: frankiep
You are wrong If you think that Poland is a success story in Europe.

BTW Were are nazis ? I thought that there will be nazis in Bundestag after the elections.
239 posted on 09/18/2005 1:26:31 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: americanbychoice2

I´ve allowed myself a bottle of wine. I cannot believe it. It´s the worst case, and even these worse worst case, lol. It´s unbelievable, we´re all stunned and can´t really comment it.


240 posted on 09/18/2005 1:32:44 PM PDT by Michael81Dus (Wir wählen CDU, CDU, wähl auch du CDU, ich weiß jetzt schon was ich tu, was denn sonst - CDU!!)
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